Attached below is an email from someone who asked that the following letter be passed on:
Alan Sohn
The national high school mock trial organization once again has denied students the right to compete in the annual championship solely based on their religious practices. In 2005, after Teaneck's own Torah Academy of Bergen (TABC) was given a minimal accommodation at the national championships, the organization resolved never again to accommodate Saturday Sabbath observers. Representative Rothman and 51 others in Congress voted to condemn the national organization and New Jersey and North Carolina have been boycotting the national competition. Now, Maimonides School of Brookline Massachusetts has been shut out of competing because its students are Saturday Sabbath observers. It is time for all principled people to join voices with good people from all walks of life who have been objecting to blatant discrimination from an organization and school activity meant to educate about the most basic and fundamental principles of our constitutional democracy.
Ten years ago, TABC placed third in the state's high school mock trial competition. Already back then in 1999, the New Jersey bar recognized that the national competition would be problematic for Jewish schools because the championship was held on a Saturday. New Jersey asked the national organization, known as the National High School Mock Trial Championship (NHSMTC) to alter the schedule and accommodate Sabbath observers. NHSMTC refused. When TABC won New Jersey's championship in 2005, the school and state officials asked for a simple accommodation whereby two of over a hundred trials would be held on Friday instead of Saturday. NHSMTC would not budge and refused the request. That year the championship was being held in North Carolina and when North Carolina officials got wind of NHSMTC's stubborn stance, they insisted on the accommodation. The story of TABC's challenge can be viewed on the following you tube video clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vrFRjU-uZs
NHSMTC responded by adopting a resolution that it would never again accommodate Saturday Sabbath observers. It did so even though the accommodation did not affect the competition. Various members of the NHSMTC board resigned and the states of New Jersey and North Carolina withdrew from NHSMTC and began an alternative competition that holds its championship during the week rather than on a weekend. Today no New Jersey or North Carolina school participates in the NHSMTC annual championship. The Congress of the United States has condemned NHSMTC and urged accommodation for Sabbath observers. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hr110-25 The congressional hearing on this subject can be viewed on CSPAN. http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77531&id=8111188
Now, the Maimonides High School of Brookline Massachusetts has won the 2009 Massachusetts mock trial championship and is slated to represent that state at the NHSMTC competition to be held in Atlanta Georgia on May 8-9. http://www.gabar.org/nhsmtc/ The event is being sponsored by the Young Lawyers Division of the Georgia state bar and actual Georgia judges and Georgia courtrooms will be used for the trials. Maimonides asked the NHSMTC to accommodate its team the same way TABC was accommodated in 2005. The NHSMTC board refused, citing its resolution not to alter schedules for Sabbath observers. The Anti Defamation League has written to the NHSMTC objecting to the failure to provide a religious accommodation. The Attorney General of Georgia has also expressed his disappointment with the NHSMTC. Noted civil rights lawyers Nathan and Alyza Lewin are representing some of the Maimonides' students and their parents and have asked the Department of Justice to open an investigation of the NHSMTC. Both the ADL and Attorney General Baker's letters are attached. [NOTE: The letters described are not attached to this post - AS]
The competition is nearing. Now is the time to stand with the states of New Jersey and North Carolina and demand that NHSMTC (an organization that is supposed to be devoted to teaching about the values and ideas of our cherished United States Constitution) not engage in religious discrimination. Make your voices heard to Attorney General Baker in Georgia (tbaker@law.ga.gov) and to Mr. Jeff Bramlett (bramlett@bmelaw.com), respectfully asking that Georgia insist that the NHSMTC accommodate the Maimonides' students.
106 comments:
You have to be kidding me national mock trial actually committed never again to accommodate Saturday Sabbath observers. This is the text of the resolution passed in the House of Representatives.
HRES 25 IH
110th CONGRESS
1st Session
H. RES. 25
Calling on the Board of Directors of the National High School Mock Trial Championship to accommodate students of all religious faiths.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
January 4, 2007
Mr. ROTHMAN (for himself and Mr. RAMSTAD), submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Education and Labor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RESOLUTION
Calling on the Board of Directors of the National High School Mock Trial Championship to accommodate students of all religious faiths.
Whereas religious intolerance and discrimination continue to be the root causes of many of the conflicts around the world;
Whereas the United States of America was founded by those seeking to practice their religion freely, and the American justice system, including all legal professionals involved, should be working to uphold this principle;
Whereas the First Amendment to the Constitution states that `Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances';
Whereas section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution states, `All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.';
Whereas the National High School Mock Trial Championship has been, until this date, a prestigious event that requires a tremendous amount of preparation, skill, and dedication on behalf of those students who are competing, and is looked upon with distinction by institutions of higher learning;
Whereas the National High School Mock Trial Championship is a program based on constitutional law;
Whereas the sponsor of the 2005 competition stated that, `The National High School Mock Trial Championship is a participatory program that engages students, legal professionals and the educational community to advance the understanding of the American justice system and the important role of lawyers. A well-educated public translates into a more engaged citizenry that is better equipped and more interested in fulfilling their civic responsibilities';
Whereas the National High School Mock Trial Championship espouses the goals of heightening `appreciation of the principle of equal justice for all' and promoting the `exchange of ideas among students from throughout the United States';
Whereas the usual National High School Mock Trial Championship schedule consists of two rounds on Friday and two rounds on Saturday, followed by a Championship round on Saturday;
Whereas the Torah Academy of Bergen County of Teaneck, New Jersey, won the 2005 New Jersey State Bar Foundation High School tournament, and was eligible to compete in the National High School Mock Trial Championship;
Whereas the members of the mock trial team from Torah Academy observe the Sabbath, in accordance with their practice of Orthodox Judaism, and would not have been able to participate in any National High School Mock Trial Championship competitions from sundown on Friday through sundown on Saturday without certain accommodations;
Whereas satisfactory accommodations were made to allow Torah Academy of Teaneck, New Jersey, to compete during the last National High School Mock Trial Championship held in Charlotte, North Carolina, from May 5-7, 2005, without violating the religious practices of the students;
Whereas a review of the post-host report compiled after the 2005 Championship showed a majority of the comments supported the accommodations made for the Torah Academy students and the benefit of competing with the Torah Academy students;
Whereas one respondent replied, `the compromise demonstrated fairness, tolerance and problem-solving, all values that I try to encourage in my students';
Whereas the Board of Directors of the National High School Mock Trial Championship voted on October 15, 2005, to refuse any future accommodations for students who observe Sabbath on Friday and/or Saturday;
Whereas students who have otherwise met all of the criteria to participate in the qualifying competitions leading to the National High School Mock Trial Championship should be able to compete regardless of their religious affiliation;
Whereas the Board of Trustees of the New Jersey State Bar Foundation unanimously voted at its October 27, 2005, meeting that New Jersey will not compete in the National High School Mock Trial Championship unless the National Board establishes a policy permitting accommodation for religious observance;
Whereas on January 6, 2006, the North Carolina Academy of Trial Lawyers also officially withdrew from participating in the National High School Mock Trial Championship because the National Board would not make changes to the competition's schedule to accommodate students with religious restrictions;
Whereas the decision of the Board of Directors of the National High School Mock Trial Championship to refuse any future accommodations for students who observe their Sabbath on Friday and/or Saturday adversely and wrongly impacts observant Jewish, Muslim, and Seventh-Day Adventist students;
Whereas the decision made by the Board of Directors of the National High School Mock Trial Championship is inconsistent with the spirit of freedom of religion or equal protection; and
Whereas all students should be allowed to both compete fully in the National High School Mock Trial Championship and uphold the practice of their religion: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved, That the House of Representatives--
(1) calls on the Board of Directors of the National High School Mock Trial Championship to accommodate the religious beliefs of students participating in the competition; and
(2) urges the Board of Directors of the National High School Mock Trial Championship to restructure the rules of the competition to allow qualifying students of all faiths to compete fully in this national championship without betraying their religious beliefs.
Why hasn't this made any of the mainstream Jewish or non-Jewish press?
Is this really happening in the 21st century? or did we take a time machine back to preWWII America?
Check this out. The web site for the 2010 national mock trial event has a report attached called "Pre-Host Progress Report October 2008." http://www.2010nationalmocktrial.com/pdf/prehostreportoctober2008.pdf.
Looks like the organization cares a lot about accommodating for the college football season. The report states:
"PRE-TOURNAMENT BOARD MEETING
We plan to hold next s pre-tournament board meeting on the weekend of
Oct. 16-18, 2009. (Please note, UGA is on the road and LSU has a bye,
respectively, so there are no SEC football conflicts of which I am
aware!)."
Hmmmmm
Does Rothman know about this? I can't imagine congressmen like seeing their resolutions flaunted?
Anon 10:59 p.m.: Good pick up that the NHSMTC accommodates for the college football season and not for constitutional freedoms.
In the You Tube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vrFRjU-uZs), the argument the NHSMTC made was that if they accommodated for Sabbath, they would have to accommodate for proms and AP exames (and sporting events).
Of course, there is a big difference between those and First Amendment freedoms. Like freedom of speech and the right to vote, freedom of religion is a "fundamental" right that requires close scrutiny when there is direct restraint on someone's ability to practice his religious beliefs.
Not everything that affects religion is subject to close scrutiny. But when you leave a religious person with absolutely no choice (as the lady said on the video) that the only way you can participate is by abandoning your religious principles and practices, than the behavior is of serious constitutional concern.
What about letting Georgia politicians know about this.
"Flouted" is the correct word, not "flaunted". Don't flaunt ignorance.
Is there a constitutional right to participate in Mock Trial?
Nope but once you do participate and the organization that is running the event uses public facilities, public funds and its purpose is to teach students including those in public schools, you cannot deny participation solely based on religious practice. At the very least, you cannot stubbornly refuse even the most minimal accommodation to those religious beliefs. This one is a no brainer.
Does anyone know where the council meeting will take place tomorrow evening? I heard that the mayor might change the venue to accommondate the anticipated higher than usual number of people in attendance due to the failed school budget.
Yes, that is correct, to say "you are kidding me". There are so many factual inaccuracies in these statements that they are a joke. The improper change in scheduling in 2005 in order to accommodate TABC created an unfair advantage for TABC, and disadvantaged other teams. Just ask Gaston Christian School from North Carolina. As a result of the special scheduling advantages given to TABC, Gaston Christian School could only compete in two rounds instead of four rounds. And that is the tip of the iceberg. The bloggers making comments should check their facts before making statements about Saturday Sabbath observers. It has nothing to do with religious freedom. Yes, this is the 21st century. Check your facts instead of living in the past. In 2009, the Maimonides team has been welcomed to attend, with a number of special accommodations already allowed.
Accommodating a team by forcing them to forfeit trials that are scheduled on Saturday is not an accommodation.
If it's not about religious freedom, how do you interpret an approved vote of the NHSMTC board never again to accommodate a change in the schedule for Saturday Sabbath observers? Why did North Carolina and New Jersey withdraw from the NHSMTC and have been forced to hold their own competition during the week? Why did long time board members of the NHSMTC resign after the board vote? What do you make of a congressional resolution condemning NHSMTC for its actions?
The poster talking about "unfair advantage" to TABC should be ashamed of himself for posting such false and misleading information.
First, Gaston Christian School was not one of the state winners and only participated as a "placeholder" so that there were an even number of teams. No other 2nd place winner participated or had a right to participate and Gaston Christian School was more than happy of the honor of just participating. (and if this is the main complaint, I would ask how come the Board offered Maimonides to compete in the 2 Friday rounds and forfeit the 2 Saturday rounds which again would require the 2nd place team this time from the home state of Georgia to compete in only 2 rounds)
Second, mathematically, none of the rankings were changed by this minimal accommodation.
Third, I thought the primary objective of the NHSMT was education and inclusiveness, not precise measured competition.
I hear that a pressure campaign is being mounted pre-emptively for Philadelphia, the site of next year's competition.
Back channels have informed me about a lot of sympathy there. The imminent DOJ investigation should give them good cover to threaten to break the contract without penalty.
Someone passed me a quote from the official minutes of the State Coordinators meeting in May 2005 accusing Congressman Rothman of "blackmail" in advocating for TABC. I'm sure that will make the congressman happy.
Here is the exact quote from the transcribed minutes by Bob Noel, a Board member from Louisiana:
"Now, an accommodation was made, thanks to basically blackmail, because that's exactly what took place, including a congressman from
that district directing us."
I was told that other Board members had called TABC a "terrorist organization" though I haven't seen official documentation of that.
Way to win friends in Congress and public opinion NHSMT
While it is interesting to read the post at 10:55AM complaining about a "blackmail" description, viewers should read the other post at 10:46AM talking about a "pressure campaign being mounted for Philadelphia" and "good cover to threaten to break the contract". Again, you miss the point. Are you saying that blackmail is good, and you are proud of it? Are you saying that you need to use blackmail in order to gain unreasonable circumstances which give an unfair competitive advantage to one team at the expense of others?
Forget about blackmail and pressure. Everybody can interpret things as they wish. The simple question are these -- what's wrong with providing a minimal accommodation of changing a schedule for two trial out of over a hundred in order to accommodate a Sabbath observant state champion? Add to that what's wrong with doing so when the First Amendment of the United State constitution prevents the use of state funds and facilities that help exclude someone purely based on religious principles. Add to that, why would an organization that promotes legal education and the values of constitutional democracy want to behave like this?
Somebody posted at 10:40AM that I posted false and misleading information.
What was wrong?
And if you knew the facts and if you did not post false and misleading information, you would know that Gaston Christian School in 2005 was authorized to compete as a full-fledged team because the host state is allowed to enter it's second-place state team into the competition to create an even number of teams for the National Competition. As such, Gaston Christian School was entitled just as much as TABC to compete in four rounds, and if Gaston Christian School would have won all four rounds, it probably would have been in the Championship Round.
So please do not malign a team which graciously agreed to compete and throw away it's rights in order to make special and unfairly advantageous circumstances for TABC.
Why did the NHSMTC determine never again to accommodate even before the actual mock trial championship meets took place in 2005?
Thanks for your question. The NHSMTC did not determine never again to accommodate. In fact, the Board of Directors and all State Coordinators fully discussed the scheduling issues at a State Coordinators' meeting in May, 2005, which is normally held the day before the competition. New Jersey was invited to attend the discussion, but declined. The State Coordinators voted to maintain the current schedule and the integrity of the competition for all participants. In September, 2005, the Board again surveyed all State Coordinators, and the results were overwhelmingly in favor of maintaining the current schedule. The NHSMTC is making reasonable accommodations. The Mainomides School is not being excluded from the competition, as some would have you believe. It is welcomed. For example, every effort is being made to accommodate the conclusion of the trials on Friday before sundown. The Saturday night banquet is being modified to accommodate the Maimonides School team members as they may arrive at the banquet late due to their religious observance.
I agree with the blogger at 11:52AM. Forget about blackmail and pressure. But could you please direct your comment to the people creating blackmail and pressure?
I also agree that minimal and reasonable accommodations should be considered. It is not as simple as changing two trials. For example, in order for the competition to be fair, if the first trial round for Maimonides does not present it with an array of opponents equal to the array to be faced by all other teams in their first round, then Maimonides obtains an advantage. The results of the first round of the competition are used to determine the opponents for the second round, and that has a snow-ball effect. So, mathematically, as opposed to what some would have you believe, there is a very significant effect on the competition. Creating a special third round of competition on Friday, and expecting that it be completed before sundown, presents another problem. In 2005, for example, TABC knew for three weeks in advance that it would be competing in that round. While several hundred team members had to sit at the courthouse and wait to be selected after Round 2, TABC was prepared. It's opponent was given only a few minutes notice that it would have to compete against TABC. This aspect is the type of unreasonable accommodation which the NHSMTC members have voted out.
Perhaps NHSMTC is becoming more sensitive and if so, that would be great. Nobody wants their to be continued animosity. But let me ask a very basic question: under the current schedule, will Maimonides have to participate in any trials on Saturday? If so, the students will be required to forfeit those trials purely because of religious beliefs. You can throw up your hands and say that is their choice and too bad for them. But you also have to realize that you are sanctioning conduct that excludes someone solely (and for no other reason) because of their religious beliefs. That is a serious problem whenever state funds, state personnel, and state facilities are being used. But NHSMTC's purpose is to give talented youth a better understanding and appreciation of this country's great legal system. How do you square that?
This conversation would be a lot easier to follow if people would choose names for themselves. Even if it was just Anon1, Anon2, Anon3...
someone asked if this is the 21st century? Your darn right...just read all the obvious anti-semitism on this board on a regular basis to know there is plenty of it (and many other forms of bigotry) alive and well in Teaneck.
Applying pressure through boycotts and quid pro quo as been called 'blackmail' in order to make the efforts to open this event up to all to be more insidious sounding.
Then we've created all sorts of ways this is all 'unfair' by claiming that all the brackets will have to be rearranged - despite showing this actually happened or would have to happen.
Why don't you guys just admit it - you're scared to death of Jewish lawyers, except for the 2 or 3 scummy ones you hang around with....
This isn't about anti-Semitism. No one believes that the NHSMTC is anti-Semitic. That organization is well intentioned. But even well meaning people should be compelled to abide by the fundamental principles of the Constitution. This story is now ten years old and many of the people who have been fighting to protect religious freedom are not Jewish. Don't make a serious dispute an ethnic battle when it isn't one.
I for one am happy that the NHSMTC refuses to accommodate Maimonides. Observant Jews in America need to learn at an early age that in order to practice your religion here, you will have to make sacrifices.
They should be in Israel, and this would not be a problem.
Should the Kentucky Derby be moved to the first Tuesday in May because it disenfranchises orthodox gamblers? Should the Teaneck 4th of July Parade be moved to July 3rd so Mayor Feit can march? (This was mentioned in a note put in my mailbox today by a disgruntled fireman). Should Sunday blue laws in Bergen County not apply to the orthodox?
We must face the facts. This is NOT our country. We are welcome to live here (as of now), but we can't ask the entire country to alter their schedules on our behalves.
High school students should be taking this as a dual lesson: firstly, they would not have this problem in Israel and secondly, if they choose to remain here in America, this is just the first of many, many times they will be forced to choose between their religion and "something else."
My next question: If Maimonides knew in advance of the problem with TABC in 2005, why did they enter this contest in the first place instead of the alternative contest?
Speak for yourself Out of Rightfield. This is a wonderful country that embraces many different religions and cultures. Many have contributed to its success, including many Orthodox Jews and it's because of the First Amendment that that's the case. The sentiment you express is part of the reason the NHSMTC should be eager to make an accommodation so that all peoples can continue to feel they are part of this unique and amazing constitutional democracy.
Anon, the problem is not accommodation, the problem is REASONABLE accommodation. What is reasonable? Should McDonald's be forced to sell kosher and halal burgers to accommodate Jews and Muslims? Should the Yankees cancel all Friday night and Saturday afternoon games so orthodox Jews can buy season tickets? Where would you stop?
My definition of reasonable may not match yours, but we agree that you can't accommodate everyone for every religious reason, although reasonable accommodations should be made.
Rescheduling two trials out of over one hundred seems eminently reasonable especially since surveys done after the competition in 2005 show that the accommodation to TABC did not affect things.
In respectful response to Yoni's suggestion at 2:15PM, I made the postings at 10:28, 11:45, 11:59, 12:38 and 12:50, and probably will not make any more. I have no idea why the anonymous poster at 2:35PM would make a complaint about "obvious anti-semitism on this board on a regular basis". This is the first day I have even looked at this message board. In my good-faith attempts to clear up inaccurate statements and provide explanations here I have stated facts and have said nothing hateful. I believe reasonable persons can see the 2:35PM poster comments and hopefully recognize that resolving issues does not follow from statements like "you're scared to death of Jewish lawyers, except for the 2 or 3 scummy ones you hang around with." That is what you want to teach teenagers?
The very title of this article: ""Mock Trial Again Denies Constitutional Rights" is a sensational title, but arguably inflammatory and arguably inaccurate.
The same poster portends to know something about rearranging brackets. But to say "despite showing this actually happened or would have to happen" shows an unfortunate lack of knowledge.
It appears to me that the NHSMTC is not refusing to attempt to accommodate Maimonides. The real issue is that the NHSMTC membership of competitors will not accommodate Maimonides in EVERYTHING that Maimonides supporters want, which includes drawing a line at actions which will create an unfair and unreasonable burden on the competition and on the other teams.
Like many things in life there are minimum requirements and goals at issue here.
A minimum requirement would be for the NHSMTC to abide by the law and noone here should deny this. But is that the goal we want to set? That the minimum requirement is all we are striving for?
Personally I think that there are moral implications in the denial of the right to compete to a group solely on the basis of religious observance - especially in the field of law.
In Brooklyn, a Judge postponed scheduled arguments a few weeks ago because a Jewish defendant would be forced to attend on Friday afternoon and travel back after the Sabbath had begun. Was this required? No, not at all, but the goal is beyond the minimum requirement for a reason.
Fidelity to law and justice must go beyond the letter of it.
If there's no reasonable way to re-arrange the competition so that an orthodox member can compete on a Friday-Saturday schedule, then it should be changed to a weekday. Again, not because it's required, but because it's the right goal to strive for.
Don't pay any attention to Out of Rightfield. He rants and raves about anti-Semitism at the drop of a hat. This isn't about Maimonides in 2009 and TABC in 2005. It's about an organization that is dedicated to teaching understanding and appreciation of the laws of this country through state funds, facilities and personnel while knowingly excluding one segment of the population from meaningfully participating purely based on their religious beliefs. Something is wrong with that.
You do realize that Maimonides is not being "denied the right to compete solely on the basis of religious observance", don't you? Although that does sound kind of catchy, if not old and tired. They are not being denied. They are being welcomed. Their participation is meaningful - after all, the arguments here attempt to DISMISS the "competitive" aspects of the competition in favor of inclusion at all costs. Does it really make a difference how many teams Maimonides will compete against within the schedule? How about three teams instead of two? Is that inclusive enough? Does it matter if Maimonides competes against two or three instead of four competitors? They will be at the Awards banquet. Is the "competition" more important to Maimonides than the "experience"? If so, then the "competition" should be meaningful, and not rigged in favor of one team.
The point about a Brooklyn judge postponing arguments in a case is a good point. IF that case, however, had 43 other cases pending based solely on the outcome of THAT original case, and the parties in THOSE 43 cases had traveled around the world to be in Brooklyn specifically on THAT day, and that 86 cases were pending for the NEXT day, and that day ONLY, which could only be resolved after the original case was heard, the answer would have been different.
I am sure that it is possible for Massachusetts or New Jersey to place a bid for hosting the National High School Mock Trial Championship, then they would be in a better position to explore the possibilities for scheduling during the Championship. They've apparently had years to prepare. Why haven't they placed a bid?
Actually without Maimonides competing, you restrain competition because you will always have the possibility that this year the most successful team might not have one. Your entire defense is one based on not affecting the comeptitiveness of the competition and now you say all Maimonides should care about is the opportunity to attend the awards' banquet. Try again!!!
Does anyone know where the council meeting will take place tomorrow evening? I heard that the mayor might change the venue to accommondate the anticipated higher than usual number of people in attendance due to the failed school budget.Never mind the budget (for now). The Council has time for that. It's the firefighters who will be out tommorow evening. Good luck to them.
http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/04/jewish-students-ask-doj-for-help-to-honor-sabbath.html
Anonymous at 4:32PM. Sorry you don't get it. I didn't say that all Maimonides should care about is the opportunity to attend the awards banquet. I stated that I understand they can attend the awards banquet as a part of being included no differently than any other team, except, of course, that the host has graciously offered to arrange their tables so that they can enter the banquet late if needed to observe their religious practice. How unfortunately limited your scope is that you cannot understand. I stated the irony that sometimes your audience wants 100% inclusion regardless of the unfairness to other teams, and sometimes your audience refuses to accept ANY reasonable accommodation because they want to "win" at all costs. Sorry. I will not "try again". I am done here. Signed - another formerly reasonable person and potential ally you have alienated.
Anyone who knows the story of what happened in North Carolina knows full well of the continued intransigence of national mock trial and the hostility it continues to show to brave people from the New Jersey bar and the North Carolina trial lawyers, people I might add who are not "my audience."
Let's get back to the key points --
1.For 10 years the NHSMT org has been obstinate in refusing ANY even minor scheduling changes to allow Sabbath-observant schools to participate
2. The NHSMT is a quasi-public organization that is primarily funded by public funds and uses public courtroom facilities free of charge
3. The hypothetical objections of unfair advantage have been disproven both mathematically and by experience.
4. Even if there were proved to be somehow a residual bias in favor of Maimonides, the team would be willing to accept compensatory measures to even out the playing field
5. Even if there still was some theoretical bias in some unknown direction, the whole charter of the NHSMT is about education and not about absolutely perfect competitive matchups (which can never be the case in any tournament of random 1st round matchups)
Below is what's written on the Blog of the legal Times. It's amazing that the Georgia judge who is on the board of the NHSMTC is so cavalier about the whole thing. Let's not forget we are dealing with fundamental constitutional rights.
April 27, 2009
Jewish Students Ask DOJ for Help to Honor Sabbath
As Walter Sobchak (of Big Lebowski fame) once said: "I don't roll on Shabbos."
In that vein, Orthodox Jewish students at a Boston-area high school are petitioning the Justice Department to investigate the Board of the National Mock Trial Championship for refusing their request to amend its schedule to accommodate Sabbath-observers.
Maimonides School’s mock trial team won the Massachusetts statewide competition in March. The team is scheduled to compete in Atlanta for the national qualifying trials on May 8 and 9 -- a Friday and a Saturday, meaning the team would have to sit them out for "reasons of religious conscience and observance," wrote the group's attorney, Nathan Lewin of D.C.'s Lewin & Lewin. (The Jewish Sabbath begins at sundown Friday and ends at nightfall Saturday.) Lewin is asking the department to “take such steps as are authorized by law to prevent and remedy the unlawful discrimination that is being perpetrated.” The letter says the board would have to reschedule two out of about 200 trials to allow the team participate.
The board has denied the team’s request to reschedule the trials, despite support from the Anti-Defamation League and a 2005 House resolution condemning the board in a similar case for acting “inconsistent with the freedom of religion or equal protection.” When the mock trial team of the Torah Academy of Bergen County, N.J., won their statewide competition in 2005, the board accommodated the Sabbath-observers but soon after adopted a resolution barring any future revision to the mock-trial schedule, according to the letter.
Justice George Carley of the Georgia Supreme Court, a member of the national mock-trial board, says the system broke down in 2005, when the board had to shuffle the deck for Torah Academy, which is why members passed the resolution. "It just didn't work," he says. The schedule-change made power-matching -- pitting teams with similar records against one another -- difficult.
"We tried everything in the world to work with them," Carley says. We're not discriminating against anyone. It's just our schedule."
The mock trial championship is traditionally held in state courtrooms and draws on local judges and other officials from the legal community to officiate. The letter notes that it’s unclear whether public funds are used to sponsor the event
It would have seemed the obvious thing to do, instead of the insane resolution, was to take the problems of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday into account and schedule the silly thing in the beginning of the week.
Would have been easy, and avoided the nasty tone of the resolution.
Von that is 100% correct but NHSMTC claimed it could not hold the competition during the week because that might interefere with proms and AP tests. The truth is the NHSMTC board is a very proud lot. They put this competition together 25 years ago and are stubborn about every detail. How dare someone suggest they should do something differently. It's really very sad what they did to incredibly good people who were part of their own organization and stood for principle by leaving.
Justice Carley's (board member of NHSMTC justification "it's just our schedule" seems a bit lame in the face of alleged constitutional misconduct.
Isn't the case to be made, if the states have figured out a way to accommodate the religious issues that have come up with their own state championships, shouldn't the national championship duplicate the formula for themselves?
Clearly, it CAN be done, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to compete on the state level (without fear of ruining AP exams or proms, mind you).
They just don't WANT to do it. Partly out of prejudice of practice (this is how it always has been done, therefore how it should always be done), and partly out of a slippery-slope mentality. Make one change, and boom, everything has to change. OOR alluded to this point earlier, but took the opposite approach.
This IS our country too. We have rights and protections like everyone else. We were a part in helping create this wonderful experiment called America (Jewish Revolutionary War Financier Haym Solomon and others). And yes, I can love Israel AND love America at the same time. But here I stand, a proud American, willing to fight for the rights of every minority over the occasional tyranny of the majority. We are not a Christian nation, nor a Jewish nation, nor a conservative nation, we are an independent nation built upon the laws and the rights given to us by over 700 years of jurisprudence, the children of the enlightenment, and the brilliance that continued between Common Sense and Rights of Man, coalescing in Quill to parchment by the hand of Jefferson and Madison. This is our history. No one is more or less protected by it. There is no time when it is less or more applicable to follow. We are equally bound and protected by it, and its ideals are our legacy to upkeep.
Just because people refuse to accept it, or simply don't understand it, doesn't mean that it isn't their duty to safeguard it and ensure the proper exercise thereof.
The National High School Mock Trial Championship board should be ashamed of themselves. They claim to celebrate the ideals of law (the whole purpose of their existence) while simultaneously prohibiting the rights of those the law is meant to protect, is incredulous. They should know better, and what's worse is they probably do.
It's not anti-Semitism. The NHSMTC people are smart and committed to the cherished principles of this country. But they are proud people and do not want to do anything to disrupt the vanted competition they created twenty five years ago. Wasn't it Emerson who said "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."
Out Of Right field's comments ought to disturb every Jew who reads his remarks. One of the calumnies against Jews in America is that they are not real Americans and have no loyalty to America, and here's this Jew not just agreeing with them but supplying them with evidence! Out Of Right Field's comments just plays into the hands of the real anti-semites.
Just ignore Out of Rightfield. He/She just wants to get a rise out of people. There is no need to be defensive about the canard of dual loyalties. The Jewish community in America has been dutiful and faithful to this country and, like others of many descents, shows great pride and commitment to its ancestral homeland that is once again thriving.
http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=11281&pageid=89&pagename=Features
The Legal Edge Back to Features
National High School Mock Trial vs. Orthodox Jewish Students—Showdown Looming
Edwin Black April 28th 2009
The National High School Mock Trial Championship is esteemed for bringing young people into the best traditions of the American legal system. But now the organization is being broadly criticized from the halls of Congress to state bar associations and attorneys general for clinging to one of the nation’s worst traditions: religious insensitivity.
The charge stems from the national mock trial group’s refusal to accommodate the need for an Orthodox Jewish team from Maimonides School from Brookline Massachusetts to reschedule its event from Saturday—the Jewish Sabbath—to a Thursday or Friday as has been done in the past.
From May 6-10, state champions from across the United States will assemble in Atlanta to compete in the national finals. A decision to accommodate the Sabbath observers must be made immediately. Hence, a showdown is looming in the coming days as high-profile Jewish cause attorneys Nathan Lewin and Alyza Lewin, the Anti-Defamation League, and supportive circle of prestigious legal personalities try to convince the national office to be flexible. If not, advocates are considering civil rights litigation and a Department of Justice civil rights investigation; and the national association risks yet another black eye for its inability to accommodate the needs of minorities—many would say, the essence of jurisprudence.
The genesis of the case really starts not in Massachusetts or Atlanta but in New Jersey in the last century. In the late 1990’s, the New Jersey Bar Association Foundation realized that that Orthodox Jewish day schools were among the leading finalists in its state mock trial competition. The New Jersey State Bar Foundation asked the National High School Mock Trial Championship to accommodate Sabbath observers in national competition scheduling. To do that, some Saturday sessions would have to be rescheduled to the Thursday and Friday tourney days. More than just individual students, entire teams from orthodox schools were involved. Hence, the seemingly small accommodation seemed sensible. But the national body saw it as an infringement of its authority and refused any schedule accommodation on the basis of religious observance.
Four years ago, in early 2005, the issue arose in earnest. The Talmudic Academy of Bergen County won the New Jersey state competition. Again, when approached, the national body again stubbornly refused to adjust the competition schedule for religious reasons. At the time, the North Carolina Academy of Trial Lawyers was hosting the national championships. Despite the national office’s refusal, the North Carolina Academy of Trial Lawyers in conjunction with the New Jersey Bar Association agreed to the minor schedule switching needed, thus allowing the Talmudic Academy of Bergen County students to participate in the finals. Four rounds were slated for Thursday and Friday instead of Saturday. Moreover, they elected to delay commencing the final round until after sundown on Saturday—the end of the Jewish Sabbath—should the New Jersey students win finalist status. Apparently the adjustment was easy. Only two teams needed to volunteer for new schedules and more than 10 offered. The adjustment was applauded for demonstrating the value of religious tolerance in a pluralistic juridical system.
But the national body’s leadership was outraged, according to attorneys familiar with the case. It passed a resolution prohibiting any such accommodation in the future. “During the meeting of the State Mock Trial Coordinators in May 2005,” explains John Wheeler, Board Chairman of the National High School Mock Trial Championship, “the coordinators voted not to permit future modifications to the competition schedule format. It is the opinion of the State Coordinators and the Board that while the [New Jersey contestant] accommodation may have allowed full competitive participation, it unreasonably affected the conduct of the national tournament and forced unreasonable alteration to the planned schedule of events.”
Responding to that vote, the New Jersey Bar Foundation and the North Carolina Academy of Trial Lawyers both withdrew from future participation in the National High School Mock Trial Championship. What’s more, the national body’s resolution was unanimously condemned by the House of Representatives in a September 2007 vote. House Resolution No. 25 termed the national mock trial body’s decision “inconsistent with the spirit of freedom of religion, the kind of spirit on which this country was based.” Video transcripts and House records show a host of legislators rising to express their dissatisfaction, citing the specific of the New Jersey case. Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ) was typical when he asserted, “It is not without irony that this was applied in a competition that is intended for legal and constitutional education.”
However, Wheeler in an April 20, 2009 letter to the Anti-Defamation League, obtained by this reporter, openly denigrated the Congressional resolution. “This ill-considered action by the House of Representatives demonstrated a remarkable lack of due process,” wrote Wheeler. He belittled the unanimous House resolution as a “mundane” and “purely political maneuver which certainly does not reflect the informed judgment of the United States Congress.”
The issue has returned to the front burner because the Maimonides School of Brookline won the Massachusetts mock trial competition this year. As the New Jersey and North Carolina groups before it, the Massachusetts Bar Association has requested the National High School Mock Trial Championship office make the minor schedule adjustment needed. Reportedly, only two out of 100 round needs to be rescheduled. Once again, the national office has refused.
The Anti-Defamation League entered the fray with an April 9 letter to Wheeler. “Regardless of the rationale for your decision regarding denying this religious accommodation in this case,” wrote ADL civil right director Deborah Lauter, “it sets an extremely poor example for the students you are educating. Moreover, we think that denying the students the opportunity they have earned to participate in the championship is not a policy with which America’s state bar associations ought to be associated.” Because the competition is being hosted by the Georgia Bar Association, Lauter’s letter was openly copied to Georgia Attorney General Thurbert Baker, Georgia Bar Association President Jeff Bramlett, Georgia Supreme Court George H. Carley, and others with a stake in supporting the mock trial championships.
That led Georgia Attorney General Thurbert Baker to join the ADL position with his own April 20 letter to Wheeler. “As you are aware,” admonished Baker, “I personally supported Atlanta's efforts to host this competition, and I remain proud of that support. My past support of your organization, however, does not diminish the concern when I heard that there is a very real possibility that the team from the Maimonides School, the official representative of Massachusetts at this event, might not be able to compete due to the Competition committee's unwillingness to schedule around Shabbat. As you are aware, the beliefs of the Maimonides School will not allow their students to compete on Shabbat, creating the potential that these students may not be able to realize the benefits of the competition here in Atlanta. I have expressed similar concerns to Jeff Bramlett, president of the State Bar of Georgia, whose organization is hosting the event. I hope that this matter can be resolved in a manner that does not force these students to choose between deeply held religious beliefs and participation in a competition for which they have worked so hard.”
Wheeler however was not swayed. In a defiant six-page rebuff to the ADL that same day, April 20, Wheeler asserted, “The NHSMTC is a voluntary membership organization composed of the various state mock trial programs that are themselves autonomous entities. Typically, as many as 44 states and territories designate champions to participate in the national competition. There is no requirement or obligation that any state participate in this tournament.” He added that schedule shuffling might make it difficult for far away teams to attend such as those from “Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, and Hawaii.”
Wheeler’s letter to the ADL defended the organization’s policy and rejected the 2005 North Carolina-New Jersey precedent as one that “forced a departure from this system in a manner that fundamentally impacted the integrity of the prescribed power match system and was unfair to the vast majority of participants.” Specifically, claimed Wheeler, “In the second round in 2005, the New Jersey team should have faced a power-matched opponent, but this was impossible since no other teams had yet competed. This created an unfair advantage for the New Jersey team. In the fourth round for New Jersey on late Friday afternoon, its opponent was only given minutes notice that they would be competing in this round, thus affording them no preparation time; while the New Jersey team knew several weeks in advance that it would be competing at that time.”
Wheeler’s rationale were dismissed out of hand by critics and jurists alike contacted by this reporter. Steven M. Freeman, ADL Legal Affairs Department director, stated, “We recognize that the accommodation the Maimonides School is requesting may complicate the tournament scheduling for other teams, but are troubled by the apparent hostility of tournament officials and fail to understand their unwillingness even to consider alternatives which would enable the deserving Jewish students to participate.”
Wheeler did not return two deadline calls for comment.
Facing seeming intransigence by Wheeler, high-profile Jewish cause attorneys and constitutional experts Nathan Lewin and his daughter Alyza Lewin became involved. On April 22, 2009, they filed a complaint letter with the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice, on behalf of several students on the Maimonides mock trial team and their families. The DOJ is now examining the issue. Moreover, legal scholars say the Georgia State Bar may be compelled to overrule the national group, as has been done before.
“Since Georgia State Bar is a state actor,” Alyza Lewin states, “it is prohibited from engaging in such discrimination by the United States and Georgia Constitutions and by federal and state law. As the host of this years’ national competition, it is incumbent upon the Georgia State Bar to follow the example of the North Carolina hosts in 2005, and to make the modest adjustments to the competition schedule that would enable Maimonides to participate fully in the competition. Refusing to make the necessary adjustments opens up the Georgia State Bar to legal liability should the students and/or their parents sue for damages under 42 USC §1983.”
To prove their point, Lewin and Lewin asserted, “It is the host state, Georgia, that runs the 2009 NHSMTC event. The Young Lawyers Division of the Georgia State Bar put together the successful bid material. Georgia bar personnel created, organized and are administering the program. There is a ‘mock trial’ office run by Georgia bar employees for this event. The organizing committee solicited funds and raised a substantial amount from state and county bar organizations in Georgia. The Fulton County courthouse will be used for the event and over twenty Georgia courtrooms have been set aside for the trial. Georgia state judges will be judging the competition.”
Lewin and Lewin assert, “If the NHSMTC refuses to adjust the competition schedule, the Georgia State Bar should inform the NHSMTC that it believes the Georgia Bar is legally obligated (by the Constitution and Civil Rights Act) to make the adjustment, and the Georgia State Bar should move forward to take whatever steps necessary to put the schedule adjustment into effect.
At press time, both sides were holding fast making a showdown seemingly avoidable.
The Firemen have spent lots of money scaring residents and urging them to come to the Council to back their profligate ways with our tax dollars.
Of course, none of them live in towns with professional departments.
How about just saying no to them and backing our Council people in their resolute determination to prune the FD?
Perhaps they should just cancel the whole thing. That way no team is given an "unfair advantage" and the competition organizers do not have to deal with "complicated" rescheduling.
It should also be noted for future reference;
The NHSMTC is a voluntary membership organization composed of the various state mock trial programs that are themselves autonomous entities. Typically, as many as 44 states and territories designate champions to participate in the national competition. There is no requirement or obligation that any state participate in this tournament.”
Karin: You have no idea of what you are talking about. This is a great competition that should be open and available to people of all faiths. The organization is a membership orgnaization with each state having one member, most of whom are representatives of state bars whose responsibilities are to educate youth (including many public school students) about the law and its values. The organization essentially subcontracts out the responsibilites for the annual championship to one state as a host. This year that host is the Georgia state bar. Georgia bar officials and personnel are running the event. Much of the raised money came from state and county bar associations. The Fulton County courthouse will be close so the competition can use over twenty courtrooms. Georgia state judges will be involved in judging the competition. It's like this every year wherever the event is hosted. It's a great event. It just shouldn't exclude competitors solely based on their religious beliefs and practices.
Out Of Right field's comments ought to disturb every Jew who reads his remarks. One of the calumnies against Jews in America is that they are not real Americans and have no loyalty to America, and here's this Jew not just agreeing with them but supplying them with evidence! Out Of Right Field's comments just plays into the hands of the real anti-semites.Gotcha so OOR is the "atypical" Jew.
Anon 3:14-
If this is such a "great' event then why doesn't Jersey participate any longer? Also it is open to everyone regardless of their faith Anon.
It just shouldn't exclude competitors solely based on their religious beliefs and practices.No one is excluding anybody they are excluding themselves. They are more than welcome to participate when they are scheduled to participate, why should they be given an "unfair advantage" as Wheeler stated.
I stand by my earlier post, they should just cancel the whole shebang
Karin: all that is being aksed for is to reschedule two out of over 150 trials so that one state champion will be able to compete. Is that unreasonable? Is there some principle you believe in that such an accommodation offends you? Don't you think such an accommodation is consistent with the freedom of religion guaranteed by the Constitution? Don't you think we should be teaching student participants at this event to celebrate the First Amendment and not to ignore it?
Why doesn't this blog deal with the fire department and their excesses?
We had half the number of firemen for a larger population forty years ago.
I am beginning to wonder if OOR and Karin are the same Multiple Personality Disorder person.
They sound so much alike but at opposite ends of the poles.
OOR makes Jews feel ashamed and Karin makes non-Jews feel ashamed.
What if the problem was that the courthouse in GA wasn't handicap accessible and members of one team couldn't participate because they couldn't physically get into the courtroom?
Would anyone suggest 'too bad', the event is voluntary? We don't have to worry about these issues because of a federal laws prohibiting this. We have similar laws against religious discrimination.
As to the few people who suggested that the mock trial org is not anti-semitic - BULLSH*T! Everything he has said and done says he most certainly is (or at least anti religious Jews).
This is not an issue that belongs only to Jews or observant Jews. No school in New Jersey and in North Carolina has been allowed to attend the NHSMT championship over the last three years because of the blatant First Amendment violation. If you want to read North Carolina's withdrawal letter, it can be found at
http://www.ncatl.org/file_depot/0-10000000/0-10000/9208/folder/51285/Jan.%209,%202006
Karin: all that is being aksed for is to reschedule two out of over 150 trials so that one state champion will be able to compete. Is that unreasonable?It is unreasonable if it gives another team an unfair advantage like it did in 2005 as Wheeler stated. If they can reschedule the 2 trails so everything is still on a level playing ground I say go for it and reschedule!
Is there some principle you believe in that such an accommodation offends you? See my reply above :-) the accommodation does not offend me.
Don't you think such an accommodation is consistent with the freedom of religion guaranteed by the Constitution? Actually the Constitution guarantees people the freedom of religion and so far nothing is infringing on that right. They have the right to their jewish religion/faith or is someone stopping them? They do not need an accommodation to be made so they can practice their first amendment right.
Don't you think we should be teaching student participants at this event to celebrate the First Amendment and not to ignore it?who is ignoring it?
The First Amendment contains two clauses about the Freedom of Religion. The first part is known as the Establishment Clause, and the second as the Free Exercise Clause.
The Establishment Clause prohibits the government from passing laws that will establish an official religion or preferring one religion over another. The courts have interpreted the establishment clause to accomplish the separation of church and state.
The Free Exercise Clause prohibits the government from interfering with a person’s practice of his or her religion. However, religious actions and rituals can be limited by civil and federal laws.
Religious freedom is an absolute right, and includes the right to practice any religion of one’s choice, or no religion at all, and to do this without government control.
Your rights to Freedom of Religion and the free exercise thereof means:
The Freedom of Religion is an inalienable right.
The First Amendment provides for the Freedom of Religion for all Americans.
The Free Exercise Clause provides that government will neither control nor prohibit the free exercise of one’s religion.
The government will remain neutral.
can you tell me ANON where their 1st amendment rights are being ignored?
Anon,
What if the problem was that the courthouse in GA wasn't handicap accessible and members of one team couldn't participate because they couldn't physically get into the courtroom?
This has nothing to do with religion this is totally another matter :-)
You don't get it Karin. Where there is "state action" (as in state funds, state personnel, state facilities, state programs, state education), it cannot exclude someone solely based on their religious beliefs and practices. It certainly cannot refuse outright to adopt a reasonable accommodation to allow the religious person the ability to participate.
The facts are clear, as expressed in the North Carolina letter, that the accommodation to TABD did NOT affect the competition. It's actually the exclusion of a team that would affect the legitimacy of the competition.
It's really very simple and you should be willing to put aside prejudice and bias to celebrate in the wisdom and sensitivity of the First Amendment.
Anonymous said...
You don't get it Karin. Where there is "state action" (as in state funds, state personnel, state facilities, state programs, state education), it cannot exclude someone solely based on their religious beliefs and practices. It certainly cannot refuse outright to adopt a reasonable accommodation to allow the religious person the ability to participate.Who says it is a reasonable accommodation if it gives one team an unfair advantage like it did in the past?
The facts are clear, as expressed in the North Carolina letter, that the accommodation to TABD did NOT affect the competition. It's actually the exclusion of a team that would affect the legitimacy of the competition.I can not access the letter. I am just going off a post an ANON made where is quotes WHEELER stating it did cause issues.
It's really very simple and you should be willing to put aside prejudice and bias to celebrate in the wisdom and sensitivity of the First Amendment.Once again the accommodation does not bother me as long as no team is given an unfair advantage. If there is no unfair advantage then make the darn change and be done with it :-)
Dare we ask why this MA Jewish school did not join The American Mock Trial Invitational that NJ and NC started that way there would of been no religious conflict.
can you tell me ANON where their 1st amendment rights are being ignored?Karin,
A rule doesn't have to be discriminatory for discrimination to exist. In fact, many times throughout our history rules have been applied to 'everyone' with the full knowledge that they would impact a particular subset of Americans. We've seen it in it's most glaring example with the literacy tests and poll taxes to discourage voters. But I'd say that this case is most similar to that of Yick Wo.
The Court, in a unanimous opinion written by Justice Matthews, noted that it was clear that the administration of the law was discriminatory and that there was therefore no need to even consider whether the ordinance itself was lawful. Yick Wo v. Hopkins
It would seem that people who are not Saturday Sabbath observers are given an unfair advantage in this competition since Saturday Sabbath observers are precluded from participating.
Does anyone know where tonight's council meeting will take place? I heard that the mayor was considering changing the location since a larger than usual crowd is expected.
Heard it will be in the Council Chamber--hot as fire itself.
It would seem that people who are not Saturday Sabbath observers are given an unfair advantage in this competition since Saturday Sabbath observers are precluded from participating.LOL! Esther it could be said that the Saturday Sabbath observers could of competed in the competition that NJ and NC founded (the one that would not of conflicted with their saturday and friday religious obligations). :-)
And I ask again the MA school knew this was going to be an issue why didn't they enroll in The American Mock Trial Invitational instead???
Karin,
Why is it another matter? discrimination is discrimination.
I'm guessing that from your time in Teaneck (and your posts on this blog), you have little tolerance for Orthodox Jews who in your opinion seem to demand accomodations for everything.
So, if a Maimonides student ask for accomodation, you are opposed. If a person in a wheelchair were to ask, you woudn't think for a second that s/he should be accomodated!
Maimonides is Rabbi Soloveitchik's school, right? He would be very pleased to know that the school's students are doing the right thing.
The Legal Times blog has a story about this at http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/04/jewish-students-ask-doj-for-help-to-honor-sabbath.html.
The letter to the Justice Department sent by Nathan Lewin on behalf of Maimonides' students and their parents is linked at http://legaltimes.typepad.com/files/doj-complaint-re-nhsmtc-4-22-09.pdf.
It sets out the basis for the investigation. Does anyone know if the Justice Department has actually undertaken the investigation?
Karin's logic: why should a person of color be upset that they can't sit at a "white only" lunch counter when there are special lunch counters set-aside specifically for non-whites?
I don't really know if it is simply lack of knowledge or blind mis-information, but the person who posted at 3:40PM said "No school in New Jersey and North Carolina has been allowed to attend the NHSMT championship over the last three years". Do you really believe that? Where is your information from? Do you know WHO has not allowed the schools to compete at the National Championship? In 2006, 2007, and 2008, did either New Jersey or North Carolina have a state champion team which had any Orthodox Jewish members? If not, then why did they not compete? Who denied the ability of over 60 New Jersey and North Carolina students who are NOT Orthodox Jewish to compete during those years?
And by the way, just because North Carolina's withdrawal letter makes certain statements (which have been blindly and blissfully copied and pasted in several other letters and blogs) does not mean they are true. Just because the North Carolina Academy of Trial Lawyers was so concerned about pending legislation in North Carolina in 2005 (that would have limited lawsuits by those very same trial lawyers) that they would have done anything to avoid publicity, does not mean that they were right. Just because the Torah Academy took the NCATL out to an expensive dinner to repay them for their actions does not mean that they were right. It just means that they were repaid for creating an advantage for the TABC team.
Once the evidence comes out, it will be very clear that the accommodation had no meaningful impact on the competition. Only by excluding a state champion will there be harm to competition. The fact is NHSMTC resolved never again to accommodate Saturday Sabbath observed because of a discriminatory motivation. No organization can act this way but certainly not one teaching law to high school students.
Anon 8:43-
I think I clearly stated that I have no issues with the accommodation that the Jewish kiddies are asking for and it should be granted as long as it does not give anybody/team an unfair advantage.
And Esther--my logic do away with the
lunch counter :-)
The First Amendment in all its glory. Karin sees the light.
Advice to OOR and Karin...
Stay out of Egypt. They are slaughtering all the pigs as a precaution over the swine flu.
Why do they even have pigs in Egypt?
What a shame everything is better with, yummy pork :-)
Why do they even have pigs in Egypt? Why not, there are folks in Egypt that eat PORK.
Why do they even have pigs in Egypt?Why are there even cases of swine flu in Israel?
Lets move on Esther... Big council meeting last night and once again, "Out of Right Field" said some dimwit Out of Left Field remarks on Teaneck Talk that I'm sure people would love to discuss as a main forum here...
Heard there are 4 cases in Israel. All people who just returned from Mexico.
Hey OOR did you know that there are pigs in Israel? Who would of thought!
There are a few pig farms inside the country, too. Kibbutz Lahav, in the northern Negev, is a big pork producer. All the other Israeli pig breeders operate in a special zone up north, which is mainly run by Christian Arabs. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jan-mcgirk/swine-flu-outbreak-in-isr_b_191525.html
Let's get back to the issue at hand. Did you know that the NHSMTC made its decision never again to accommodate Saturday Sabbath observers even before the competition took place in North Carolina in 2005. Is that discrimination or what?
Apparently, the Attorney General of Georgia has weighed in on the side of the Maimonides' students but still the NHSMTC is resisting. Here is the text of a lettre the Attorney General wrote to the NHSMTC.
April 20, 2009
John Wheeler, Chair, Board of Directors
National High School Mock Trial Competition
521 E Locust St., 3rd Floor
Des Moines, IA 50309
Dear Mr. Wheeler:
I am writing to you in your capacity as Chair of the Board of Directors of the National High School Mock Trial Competition. First, let me say how much I appreciate the efforts of all of those who work to make this competition such a meaningful part of the lives of the high schoolers who have an opportunity to compete in this competition. The competition and fellowship that these students have an opportunity to enjoy provides an invaluable experience, and that is why I am so pleased that the 2009 National Championship will be held in Atlanta. As you are aware, I personally supported Atlanta's efforts to host this competition, and I remain proud of that support.
My past support of your organization, however, does not diminish the concern when I heard that there is a very real possibility that the team from the Maimonides School, the official representative of Massachusetts at this event, might not be able to compete due to the Competition committee's unwillingness to schedule around Shabbat. As you are aware, the beliefs of the Maimonides School will not allow their students to compete on Shabbat, creating the potential that these students may not be able to realize the benefits of the competition here in Atlanta. I have expressed similar concerns to Jeff Bramlett, president of the State Bar of Georgia, whose organization is hosting the event.
I hope that this matter can be resolved in a manner that does not force these students to choose between deeply held religious beliefs and participation in a competition for which they have worked so hard. If there is anything that I can do, as either Attorney General or as a member of the Board of Governors of the State Bar of Georgia, to help accommodate the scheduling concerns of the Competition or the Maimonides School, please do not hesitate to call on me.
Sincerely,
Thurbert E. Baker
Attorney General of Georgia
Why is it that nobody can answer this previous question: The person who posted at 3:40PM said "No school in New Jersey and North Carolina has been allowed to attend the NHSMT championship over the last three years". Do you really believe that? Where is your information from? Do you know WHO has not allowed the schools to compete at the National Championship? In 2006, 2007, and 2008, did either New Jersey or North Carolina have a state champion team which had any Orthodox Jewish members? If not, then why did they not compete? Who denied the ability of over 60 New Jersey and North Carolina students who are NOT Orthodox Jewish to compete during those years?
New Jersey and North Carolina will not allow their students to participate in a competition that is committed blatantly to violating the constituion of the United States.
New Jersey and North Carolina will not allow their students to participate in a competition that is committed blatantly to violating the constituion of the United States.What does that say for the other states that still allow their students to compete?
Instead of blaming those who are allowing unconsitutional behavior to continue, you should be proud to live in a state that is standing against it.
Poster at 5:22AM: you stated: "Once the evidence comes out, it will be very clear that the accommodation had no meaningful impact on the competition." OK, let's see your "evidence".
Patience. The NHSMTC knows what the evidence really shows. If they want it to come out, it will.
Instead of blaming those who are allowing unconsitutional behavior to continue, you should be proud to live in a state that is standing against it.Are you freaking serious? If this is such a "big" issue as folks are making it out to be then those states should be admonished not ignored as your suggesting!
Now we're making progress. So you are saying that in 2006, 2007, and 2008, New Jersey and North Carolina discriminated against non-Jewish Orthodox students, by not even giving them a chance to participate? Did these states ask the schools or those students for their opinions, or did they just use their position to impose - what are the words used by Zev Mo - This is their country too. They have rights and protections like everyone else ?? Does this not apply to the non-Jewish Orthodox state champion teams, even a little bit?
You stated: "Patience. The NHSMTC knows what the evidence really shows. If they want it to come out, it will." Why does the NHSMTC control the evidence you are relying on? Don't you have it?
Esther-
Any comments or feedback regarding the town hall meeting last night?
Karin: Maybe we should hold town council meetings on Sundays at the same time church services are held. What do you think of that?
Anonymous said...
Karin: Maybe we should hold town council meetings on Sundays at the same time church services are held. What do you think of that?That is fine, Catholics have the option of attending Mass on Sundays or Saturdays :-)
Anonymous said...
Karin: Maybe we should hold town council meetings on Sundays at the same time church services are held. What do you think of that?
Anon another note some churches offer Sunday Mass from 7am to 12 noon. Think you could get the council to sit in session for that long? :-)
As those who are my Facebook friends know, I am in Paris this week without access to a real computer. It is therefore difficult for me to create a new thread now that this one has reached it's point of diminishing returns in which the local crazies hold court. Regretfully, I'll be back on Saturday. I'm the meantime, can one of the contributors start a new thread so we can all get a fresh start?
Forgive the typos which render my comments even less comprehendible than usual: iPhone posting is tough.
Back to canard, pomme frites et fois gras.
Just saw this quote in a letter from Wheeler to a (former) Board member:
"While I am not totally sold on Larry's [Bakko] Power Match format, I do know that the New Jersey team did in fact receive an advantage in last year's competition"
Well here is the actual data:
TABC: Ranked #38/44
Beat the #9 team (MI) but lost to #13(CO), #18(MO), #19(MA)
Minnesota team: Ranked #4/44
Beat the #35, #28, #27 team but lost to the #20 team.
Can any RATIONAL person really believe that TABC was "favorably" advantaged?
They played some of the toughest teams (all in the top half of the ranking) and finished at the bottom of the heap. Meanwhile, Minnesota played some of the weakest teams and even lost to a mid-ranked team yet finished #4
The only unfairness seems to be in the "fabled" Power Matching algorithm!
The whole unfair advantage to TABC argument is pure pretext. The NHSMTC people were hopping made at the North Carolina competition in 2005 and determined then never again to accommodate.
Anybody know where things stand with this? Good luck Maimonides. The Rav would be very proud.
NOTE THE FOLLOWING
Today the Department of Justice issued a letter to the Judicial Branch of the State of Georgia in response to the complaint raised by students of Maimonides School that the National High School Mock Trial Championship (NHSMTC) has refused to accommodate the schedule of the national mock trial championship to account for Saturday Sabbath observance. The competition is being held in Atlanta, Georgia between May 7 and 9, 2009 and is hosted by the Young Lawyers' Division of the Georgia State Bar. The Maimonides' students had requested that two of the over one hundred fifty trials be held on Thursday or Friday instead of Saturday because of religious reasons. NHSMTC rejected that request, citing a resolution it had adopted in 2005 not to accommodate scheduling changes for Sabbath observers. The trials will be held at the Fulton County courthouse. The DOJ letter asks the Georgia courts, as recipients of federal funds, to ensure compliance with the Safe Street Acts of 1968, 42 U.S.C. Section 3789(d). Recipients of federal funds may not administer programs that "have the effect of subjecting individuals to discrimination" based on religion pursuant to federal regulation. 28 C.F.R. 42.203(e).
Here is an update for you-- Jeffrey J. Kosowsky wrote:
Here is some more detail on the DOJ action. Feel free to pass
around. If you have any questions, I would be happy to try to answer
or provide more detail.
In summary, late Friday afternoon, the U.S. Department of Justice sent
out a letter to the Judicial Branch of the State of Georgia reminding
them that since they receive public funding and since the NHSTMC
competition uses public courtroom space, they may not administer
programs that "have the effect of subjecting individuals to
discrimination" based on religion pursuant to federal regulation. 28
C.F.R. 42.203(e).
We have been told off-the-record by a senior DOJ official that he
believes that this inquiry will leave the GA bar with no choice but to
either accommodate the team or to move all the trials to a private
venue, like a conference center (but that second option is unlikely
given that finding 23 courtroom-like settings at the last minute is
near impossible plus moving from real court to a conference room would
destroy the whole atmosphere of the event). Of course, there are no
guarantees and the GA Bar could always dig in their heels and resist,
which is why it is important now more than ever to continue the
media and political pressure in Georgia so that this doesn't get
buried -- we just need to help them do the right thing.
Here is a summary, that we have been distributing:
Friday, the Department of Justice issued a letter to the Judicial
Branch of the State of Georgia in response to the complaint raised
by students of Maimonides School that the National High School
Mock Trial Championship (NHSMTC) has refused to accommodate the
schedule of the national mock trial championship to account for
Saturday Sabbath observance. The competition is being held in
Atlanta, Georgia between May 7 and 9, 2009 and is hosted by the
Young Lawyers' Division of the Georgia State Bar. The Maimonides'
students had requested that two of the over one hundred fifty
trial be held on Thursday or Friday instead of Saturday because of
religious reasons. NHSMTC rejected that request, citing a
resolution it had adopted in 2005 not to accommodate scheduling
changes for Sabbath observers. The trials will be held at the
Fulton County courthouse. The DOJ letter asks the Georgia courts,
as recipients of federal funds, to ensure compliance with the Safe
Street Acts of 1968, 42 U.S.C. Section 3789(d). Recipients of
federal funds may not administer programs that "have the effect of
subjecting individuals to discrimination" based on religion
pursuant to federal regulation. 28 C.F.R. 42.203(e).
This Op Ed has been published in The Fulton County Daily Report, dated May 4, 2009.
High school legal competition unfairly excludes Jewish team
Deborah M. Lauter
The folks who run the National High School Mock Trial Championship (NHSMTC) - hosted this year by the Georgia Bar - have decided that their rigid schedule is much more important than ensuring that kids of all religions can compete in their program. Their intransigence is baffling, mean-spirited, unfair and potentially unlawful.
The facts are fairly straightforward: the prestigious National High School Mock Trial Championship starts out with state competitions, held in court houses under the auspices of state bars. One state bar then plays host to all of the state winners, affording them an opportunity to compete for national honors. The national championship, hosted this year by the Young Lawyers Division of the Georgia Bar, is scheduled to take place from May 7-9, 2009. Those dates include a Friday night and a Saturday, and pose a problem for the team from a Jewish school that won state honors in Massachusetts this year. According to Jewish law, one may not work or compete on the Sabbath. With the support of the Massachusetts Bar, this school has asked for a slight modification of the competition schedule to allow them to compete without violating the tenets of their faith. Citing the difficulty of changing its schedule, NHSMTC has refused.
How to resolve such a conflict - scheduling vs. religious accommodation - is a question on which reasonable people can and do disagree. Digging a little deeper, however, the record belies any good faith efforts on NHSMTCH's part to accommodate Jewish students and resolve this entirely avoidable problem.
Back in 2005, a team from a Jewish school in New Jersey won their state competition. When NHSMTC denied them an accommodation, that year's host state bar (North Carolina) insisted on a scheduling accommodation which allowed them to participate. Indeed, in that case over a dozen teams willingly offered to adjust their schedules to allow the team from New Jersey to compete; only two adjustments were necessary. In short, when its hand was forced, the NHSMTC was able to accommodate the needs of religious competitors.
Despite the fact that the NHSMTC is deeply intertwined with state bars (many have paid coordinators for this competition) and is dependent upon state facilities and employees to run its program, following the 2005 competition the NHSMTC unilaterally voted to refuse to provide religious accommodations in the future. They thus dragged many state bars and public facilities into the uncomfortable position of a sponsoring a program that effectively excludes observant Jews and other Saturday Sabbath observers - a position that is not only misguided, but also potentially unlawful.
Expressing appropriate indignation at this development, the United States House of Representatives passed a Resolution chastising the NHSMTC, calling on them to "to restructure the rules of the competition to allow qualifying students of all faiths to compete fully in this national championship without betraying their religious beliefs." (H.Res 110-25).
Simply put: NHSMTC knew of this issue years ago and, instead of dealing with it responsibly, decided to draw an absolutist line in the sand.
In drawing that line, NHSMTC ignored its serious legal, pedagogical and moral obligations:
" The competition, given its deep interconnectedness with state entities and facilities, is a public accommodation and thus cannot continue to discriminate on the basis of religion.
" They teach a terrible lesson: fastidious attention to a schedule will trump hard work and a willingness of others to work to accommodate religious needs. It is, as Representative Holt said during the debate on H. Res 110-25, "...not without irony that this was applied in a competition that is intended for legal and constitutional education."
" Perhaps most importantly, it is just plain unfair for the NHSMTC to wrap itself in the cloth of both government and the bar - using their facilities and employees - and then refuse to make room for all who demonstrate merit to participate in the competition.
We do not know why a prestigious organization like the NHSMTC would be willing to risk its reputation when prudence and reason seem to dictate otherwise. However, we can and must act in light of this extraordinary intransigence.
First, we call on the Georgia Bar, as host committee, to meet the standard set by their North Carolina colleagues and compel NHSMTC to do the fair thing and fully welcome these Jewish students into their competition with the assurance that if they advance, the schedule will be adjusted to accommodate their participation.
Next, we urge all state bars to insist this competition - this year and in the future - be fully open to religious accommodation - or refuse to give the NHSMTC further credibility by continued participation.
Students who participate in the National High School Mock Trial Championship learn many lessons about preparation, competition, and the law-an education that will stay with these future leaders throughout their personal and professional lives. By standing up and taking action on this issue, Georgia's lawyers will also teach those students the vital role that lawyers can play in securing justice and ensuring fair play.
Deborah M. Lauter is National Director of Civil Rights for the Anti-Defamation League, based in New York. She formerly served as Director of ADL's Southeast Regional Office in Atlanta.
ADL PRESS RELEASE
IMMEDIATELY RELEASE
ADL TO HIGH SCHOOL MOCK TRIAL ASSOCIATION:
LET JEWISH HIGH SCHOOL COMPETE
Contact:
Bill Nigut
404.262.3470
bnigut@adl.org
May 5, 2009 Atlanta, Ga… The Anti-Defamation League today called on the National High School Mock Trial Association to make accommodations that will allow a Massachusetts Jewish High School to compete in the national competition, to be held in Atlanta this week.
Maimonides School won the Massachusetts state championship and the right to participate in the national competition in Atlanta. But as observant Jews, students of the school cannot compete on Friday night after sundown or Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath. The organization that operates the competition has refused to change the schedule to give the students a fair opportunity to compete for the national title.
ADL has also appealed to officers of the State Bar of Georgia, the local sponsors of the event, to allow Maimonides to participate in trials on Thursday and Friday before sundown, the start of the Sabbath. But just two days before competition begins, neither the National Association nor the Georgia State Bar has been willing to offer an accommodation to allow the school to compete.
“The organizers of the mock trial competition seem determined to try to force the Maimonides students to choose between the requirements of their religion and the opportunity to win the national title,” said Bill Nigut, Southeast Regional Director of ADL. “Their position is unjust and unnecessarily cruel to students who have worked so hard to advance to this stage of the competition. We are deeply concerned because the clock for accommodating the school is running out.”
Because the competition will take place in Georgia state courtrooms in Atlanta, denying the students the right to fully participate may be in violation of federal law, lawyers for the Maimonides School have alleged.
ADL Southeast Regional Board Chair, Liz Price said that she has independently secured offers from several Fulton County State Court judges to offer their courtrooms and to supervise rounds of the mock trial that would allow the Jewish students to complete their trials before Sabbath begins.
“As a member of the Bar and a member of the Board of Governors of the State Bar, I am profoundly disappointed that we have failed to recognize what I see as our clear legal and moral duty in this situation,” said Ms. Price.
The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world’s leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry
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