This is a brief commentary on yesterday's school budget meeting at the Rodda Center.
Even though the organizers of the meeting reached out to a broad spectrum of the population to discuss the budget, aside from seven elected officials, about 20 citizens showed up, all budget supporters. In fact, I'm pretty sure that close to all of the people in town who voted in favor of the school budget attended this meeting.
And herein lies the problem.
If you don't vote in local elections, you have no one to blame but yourself when you have no political clout and the programs you care about are cut to the bone or eliminated.
I'm always astounded at the number of parents with kids in the public schools who lack any meaningful engagement in their children's educations or in the future viability of our public school system. I was under the false impression that the Obama era was one on which people felt empowered to use their right to vote as a tool to improve their lives and the lives of their children. I was mistaken.
You people who didn't bother to vote deserve whatever cuts in the school budget the town council metes out. I'm sure that members of the Town Council are not shaking in their boots that the prospect of slashing the school budget will result in retribution at the voting booth. They know that you people don't bother to vote.
In fact the opposite is true. The people who care enough to vote are the people who voted down the budget. Members of the Council known that these folks will punish them at the voting booth if they don't make deep enough cuts.
Democracy in action and you people are blowing it.
Parade Or Disruption?
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In its wisdom, the township has decided to disenfranchise a large part of
the community by insisting on holding the Independence Day Parade on the
morning...
4 months ago
100 comments:
I'm always astounded at the number of parents with kids in the public school who lack any meaningful engagement in their children's
education ...Did this actually surprise you Esther?
To my colleagues on the Financial Advisory Board, the Town Council, The Teaneck Board of Education and my fellow citizens of Teaneck:
I write as one with many decades experience as an educator and as a union activist.
Every school system has a culture that develops over many years and this is clearly the case in Teaneck. Part of that culture is the existence of contractual agreements that cannot be changed except by the mutual consent of the school board and the unions.
Nonetheless, at a time when looking around me I see a house adjoining my property in bank foreclosure and know personally many Teaneck residents who are out of work and others fearful of losing their jobs and being unable to pay their bills, it is obvious to me why a community that has generally gone along with the growth of expenditure in the school system would suddenly defeat the budget in such an overwhelming landslide.
What the citizens want at this time — and the school board failed to recognize this in their proposed budget -- is a re-examination of the culture and practice in the school system that will maintain and improve quality educational service while trimming excess costs.
My educational philosophy is grounded in the concept that all educators are of the classroom and ought to be there. Any school position that does not involve classroom time is not only in need of serious justification, but actually detrimental. Once an educator is no longer attached to teaching, that educator is diminished. The individual loses touch with the children being served and everyone is the poorer for it. As a Dean I, like my colleagues serving in that capacity at Bronx Science, sought refuge in the classroom from the kinds of disciplinary matters the Deans’ office was forced to deal with. The thought of deans who do not teach shocks me.
It may be that a school requires a principal and one or two assistant principals who do not teach but are involved in observing and advising teachers. The norm for teachers in any secondary school is the teaching of five classes. My understanding is that there are many individuals employed in the Teaneck system who do not teach at all. This is detrimental for them as educators, for the children they are purportedly educating and for the taxpayers financing the system. Those who are relieved of a full five classes for services they offer in lieu of teaching need careful scrutinization at a time such as this.
The existence of classes under the size of twenty (and perusal of the documents provided me by the system indicates many) is neither educationally sound nor financially justifiable.
Programming this spring for the coming school year should and must take into account the need both to pare off subject supervisors and return to the classroom educators currently not teaching at all or not enough. Bumping is unpleasant for everyone involved, but these are not normal times.
Further, there is the matter of support staff that seems quite excessive. For each middle school to have three guidance counselors, a psychologist and a social worker dedicated to that school alone at a cost of one million dollars when it would seem some of those services could be shared between the two schools is wasteful.
I hope that the Council will prevail on the School Board to volunteer to take up the points I am raising immediately so that the citizens of Teaneck need not face a tax increase during this terrible year and that the school board will reassess all budget lines over the next year to change the culture for the mutual betterment of the children and the taxpayers.
or perhaps this IS democracy in action and that the majority WANT to see budget cuts. Sometimes democracy doesn't work in your favor, Esther.
Henry - What are average class sizes like at the day schools?
Yoni - Perhaps your right. I'll let someone who's spend more time studying the numbers opine on what they mean
Esther-
Why are you and others comparing the day schools to the public schools?
Does it really make a difference to the public school kids how big the day school classes are?
Esther-
I find classes of six and eight on the school by school lists Sean Gately provided for FAB at my request. I don't understand Shakespeare classes that size.
I have no direct involvement with any day school, but what I am hearing is that they are making significant cuts to deal with the current crisis.
Karin - Good question. Henry said the following:
"The existence of classes under the size of twenty ... is neither educationally sound nor financially justifiable."I was wondering whether he was referring to a universal standard of "educational soundness and financial justification" or one that only applies to public schools. I'm curious as to what expectations private school parents have for class size and what is the threshold unacceptable class size for private school parents.
During my teaching career I taught classes sized between 28 and 34 on a regular basis.
I am obviously not speaking about lower grades but about the upper grades and departmentalized school levels.
I am glad to see that my other, non-class size, comments seem to pass muster with Esther.
Ok got it now Esther.
I can speak for myself as a private school parent...K-8 grade I dont want to see more than 20 kids in a class at the most 25. I have been lucky that my kids elementary school for the most part has had small classes averaging 15-17 kids. In high school I do not mind larger class sizes but they usually average about 20 kids and as the classes get more advanced they do get smaller. My eldest has one class with 6 kids in it, but the average class size is 18-20 kids. In regards to public schools I would think K-8 classes should be no larger than 25 and in high school I would have no issues with classes with up to 30 kids in them, with the understanding that some classes will have fewer kids in them because they are Honors level or AP level.
Also as a side note I don't think you should be comparing the private schools to the public schools for the most part that is like comparing apples to oranges on many levels.
I forgot to ask but wouldn't class size in public schools vary dependent on how many kids are attending the schools (per grade level), how many classrooms are available etc.
I mean private schools usually cap /accept only so many kids per grade level while the public schools do not have that option.
what is the state mandate on how many kids can be in a classroom? does the state mandate things like that?
Oh I wanted to ask also the Teaneck Charter School takes students in from Bogota for no cost to the students family. Do they not have to abide by the same residency requirements as the rest of the Teaneck public schools?
With all due respect to what I'm sure was a distinguished career, Henry, you taught and "deaned" in a highly selective magnet high school of motivated high achievers. I am not convinced that the way Bronx Science was run provides the best model for Teaneck's K-12 system.
As even your fellow TPS critic 2008anony observes, our schools are not inordinately administrator-heavy compared to similarly sized public school systems around the state. Perhaps we could ask more of them, and it certainly couldn't hurt to find new ways to keep them in touch with the classroom teaching experience (assuming you're correct that many never teach, a statement about which I'm not sure). But especially for a district that has undertaken an ambitious initiative to raise student achievement across the board, it's important to have people to assess these new programs, as well as the people delivering them, so that timely decisions (and adjustments if needed) can be made moving forward. This is not a job that can be done with a skeleton crew.
As a former teacher and union activist yourself, I can understand that your inclination is toward strong hands-on instruction (notwithstanding your valid comments about some class sizes, which probably do need to be addressed even if it means the end of dedicated Shakespeare courses). And I don't disagree. But I don't think we can short-shrift the administration side of things either.
When I went to school in the 60s, average class sizes were 30+ and I spent a good chunk of time disengaged and daydreaming, without any teachers paying the slightest bit of attention. On the other hand, my daughter's third grade class with Ms. Rosenblatt (a gem!) had in excess of 25 kids and it was not a problem because she's such an excellent teacher. Meanwhile, I suspect that even in a small class, there are some kids that will not engage and there's little a teacher can do to make a difference.
You say "about 20 citizens showed up, all budget supporters. In fact, I'm pretty sure that close to all of the people in town who voted in favor of the school budget attended this meeting.", then you say only opponents of budget shoed up!!! Which is it?
Oh I wanted to ask also the Teaneck Charter School takes students in from Bogota for no cost to the students family. Do they not have to abide by the same residency requirements as the rest of the Teaneck public schools?The Teaneck Community Charter School is a public school that admits students free of charge, as with all public schools. The home district of each student (and the vast majority are from Teaneck) pays TCCS 90% of its comparative cost per pupil.
Admission is offered to all New Jersey residents, but priority is given to Teaneck residents. If all spots are filled by siblings of current students and Teaneck residents in any given year, no spots will be available to non-residents.
As stated at the school's website, "Please be aware that siblings of current TCCS students have first priority for admission - provided they apply before the deadline. After siblings, Teaneck residents who applied before the deadline are chosen from a blind lottery. While all New Jersey residents are eligible to apply, priority is given to Teaneck residents."
Alan Sohn
Is it really all about class size? I don't think so. While fiscal responsibility is required and there is a need to look at all contracts for potential renegotiation (as they are currently between auto unions and the companies they are associated with and also many commercial entities with their vendors) and methods to contain costs the elephant in the room has to do with support of the community. If you do not use the public schools you should not scuttle the school system for those of us that do find it to be an excellent real world environment. With 11 years invested, the results have been very good in my opinion. All colors all kinds and an appreciation of that diversity is what my child holds in his heart. Good grades too from good interested and tough teachers. I could not ask for more. The system is not perfect, but very good. If you work hard you can find yourself with smaller classes with more dedicated students as it should be. As a person of the Jewish faith I remind us all that education is a very important piece of the faith but to deny or undercut for others is decidedly not. If it exists in scripture as such, please let me know. I can also offer that with many homes there are 2 earners particularly in the public school population and they may not be able to get to the polls. Perhaps if an absentee ballot were available to the voters that could not get to the polls, I believe we would have a very different outcome. I support not the politics but the children. As goes the education system goes the town. If you support it folks will stay and other will move in. If you scuttle the system we move further into a community of separate competing interests and the children lose.
Jeff-
I am actually quite influenced by my wife's school system. She works in Croton-Harmon High School in Croton on Hudson. It is the single high school for the district that she teaches in. It is just a bit smaller than Teaneck High.
There they have one principal and one assistant principal in the school. As Social studies leader for the whole district, she receives a very small extra stipend but teaches five full classes. There is no non-teaching subject supervisor. There is no dean at all. The assistant principal shares the observation duties with the principal and handles discipline.
In Teaneck there are non-teaching subject supervisors and subject lead teachers. Mr. Gately responded to my question about the lead teachers that they do not teach full programs.
So you see, I am not looking at Teaneck schools as compared to magnet schools, but rather I am comparing them with successful district schools that take all comers.
There are absentee ballots!
Nobody serious wants to scuttle public education.
Read the comments before you write.
I'm not convinced that class size has such an impact on student performance. Here is an article that argues to the contrary.Also, can everyone please stop implying that only day school parents are calling for cuts to the school budget? I'm a day school parent and I think the day schools should also make cuts, increase class size, cut extra-corriculars, etc. Unfortunately I can't vote on the day school budget or on the school's board. But I think we all need to tighten our belts a little, even when it comes to our children's education.
Yoni,
I do believe that belt tightening is in order but if I had to list out a priority, education spending cuts would be near the bottom. Fat should be removed from all budgets at all times, but I don't consider extra-curricular items to be 'unnecessary' to a good education.
When the private school parents stop driving gas guzzling hummers, stop vacationing in Israel 2-3 times/year, stop sending their kids to 8K/summer sleepaway camps, THEN they should be asking for budget cuts of education.
The U.S. is falling way behind the rest of th world in education and in this town, we'd sooner cut the education budget than the kiddush budget!
I did read the comments. Were you selective in your reading? Could you explain where and how absentee ballots were made available? I see no evidence of such. If the schools made the ballots available or if they were mailed to the homes, would you object? The proposal to fire 100 teachers is scuttling the system. There can be belt tightening and efficiencies gained, no doubt. Noteworthy is how you missed the main point of supporting the community and the children.
About absentee ballots -- if you've been reading the Record about what went on in the recent Pal Park and Lodi school board elections, I don't think the use of absentee ballots is something we want to encourage for anyone other that those who will not be in Teaneck on Election Day. Our polls are open from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m.
Henry -- Too bad you didn't mention your wife's school district in your original post, but I did visit its web site and it really doesn't look anything like our district. I personally don't think such district-to-district or school-to-school comparisons are particularly helpful. Does the Croton-Harmon school district have an Achievement Challenge initiative? As I said, we really can't short-shrift the force that will be overseeing, assessing, and adjusting this major undertaking.
Yoni, the balloting was crystal clear. The VAST MAJORITY of the NO votes came from sections of town that are not in the public schools. If you can afford to pay the tuition and made that decision, you should not use your decision as a pivot point against those of us that need and support the schools. Class size matters. There is more than enough evidence of that. And as we condense the budget relative to need, lets remember that as goes the body goes the mind. Go ask any teacher anywhere... and do a little spell checking too. Your case is undermined with poor presentation. You get a C-
So because Pal Park had an issue, we avoid the option? That's not progressive thinking. We need to progress ideas and involvement not figure out ways to say "no". The military can vote from far flung places and we should be able to involve locals much more readily. Do you wish to have more people vote? I do. A 10 percent turnout is too small a sampling to be statistically relevant. Lets find out what all the taxpayers think and if we need to be more flexible than lets do it. What if we had a 3 day voting cycle including a weekend day? Thoughts?
One minor correction to Jeff's post re: election hours: polls are open 7am - 9pm for school elections and 6am - 8pm for all others (I have no idea why it's different).
Absentee ballots are always available and NJ law has changed to be more lenient with them within the last couple of years. Forms are available online from the elections office and must be completed by a certain date, which is advertised.
Thanks for that correction, 11:01. I knew that, but the two different times do confuse one, don't they?
In Pal Park, where more voters voted by absentee ballots than came to the polls, the system was used by political bosses to target certain voters and not others, pressure certain voters and not others, and basically stuff the ballot box. Don't think that the day couldn't come where that could happen in Teaneck. In my view voting is both a right and a responsibility, and part of that responsibility is getting your butt to the polls if you're in town when the polls are open.
We've already had a questionable election practices event in town, so no that would not be a new event here or anywhere. My point is if you cannot get your butt to the polls because you're part of a multiple worker family, or a single parent "butt to the polls" on a given day may not work as well as intended. We need to accommodate and include and make the changes we need to. The voter turnout was horrible and I don't think it's indifference. We need to come to terms with the fact that people may not be able to get there and adapt. Lets get the true picture of what folks think, not just the unemployed, stay-at-homes and lucky few that work locally. Its not representative at that small turnout level.
If what you say is correct how do those single working parent and two parent working families get there kids to school on time during the week? The schools open later than the polls did. If they really wanted to vote they would of gotten to the polls to vote, I have a feeling it was not a top priority for many parents/taxpayers.
Has the turnout ever been wonderful for the BOE budget?
Anon -- If you absolutely can't get to the polls, neither before nor after work, or don't feel you can bring your kids with you to the voting station, then by all means use an absentee ballot.
I'm just a little wary about making it more commonplace than it needs to be, and I'm not the only one:
Law makes it easier to vote and easier to cheat
Let's stop making excuses for people. I work full time in the City. My daily commute is an hour and fifteen minutes each way. I've never had any difficulty getting to the polls in any election.
Fair points. Kids are bussed up to grade 8, and most walk to THS. Keep in mind that getting a teenager to HS at 8 won't leave much time in that time slot, and when you get home at 730PM or later that presents issues too. All parties should make noisy use of absentee ballots/alternative ideas for any folks that cannot get there. Unfortunately, elections are sadly not well attended in this country BOE or otherwise.
I'm not making excuses, just saying that our personal realities may be different enough to warrant some additional methods of inclusion. There are many commutes and situations to consider. The turnout was not representative of the the town as a whole. Mathematically, it could not be.
I'm not making excuses, just saying that our personal realities may be different enough to warrant some additional methods of inclusion. Perhaps we should start allowing people to text in their votes :-)
If people can not be present in person at the polls they have an option. The bottom line I bet is just that people dont care and dont vote.
Karin's right. They obviously don't care and as I will go on and on about, it galls me.
Whatever happened to "Yes We Can?"
Many people simply don't see why they should bother to vote in a Board of Ed election because they don't understand how it affects their lives. Even the parents with children in the schools may figure that somebody else knows more about it than they do, so why bother? We need to figure out what motivates people to vote other than their taxes.
Who were the seven elected officials who attended the meeting?
Council members: Gussen, Toffler and Parker
Board of Ed members: Duigiud, Rodriguez, Fisher, Rice
I hope I didn't overlook anyone.
It would've been interesting to hear from Mr. Burack about his views on what line items should be cut since this was the central theme of his successful campaign.
Just stop making excuses!
NY Law requires that anyone working a schedule that doesn't afford them 4 hours off while the polls are open may take up to 2 hours of PAID time off in order to go vote (that includes time at the beginning or end of the day) with advance notice to their employer. NJ has a similar provision although I can't locate it at the moment.
PEOPLE DON'T CARE about the school budget. They have different reasons - some don't have 'skin in the game', some don't think their vote will make a difference, but no matter what differences they have amongst them, they all share one thing in common - they didn't care enough to come vote, so please just STOP making excuses for them.
As for the budget, there is a decrease in the number of students projected for next year that exceeds 200. At 15 to 20 students per class, that's a minimum of 10 to 13 teachers that can be removed as 'dead weight' without impacting the level of education at all. Why has the board of ed recommended half that number? That's a real savings!
Why does the Board of Ed have their own DPW when the town is sub-contracting to third parties? How ridiculous is it to duplicate DPW services?
Why do we need administrators for every subject? Get them into the classrooms if they have experience. I saw one commenter that claimed that these administrators are gauging effectiveness. Do you have any evidence of that or is that what you think they should be doing?
The bottom line is that decisions are made by those that show up. You don't have to vote, but if you don't - you really shouldn't be surprised no matter what happens.
With all due respect to your title Esther, the school vote isn't democracy in action, it's Democracy Inaction!
I'm sorry, I forgot to mention that Dr. Pruitt was there. He was leading the discussion with Audra Jackson.
Jeff-
What do you mean when you say Teaneck doesn't look like other districts?
I believe all districts are alike. 13% of any population is special ed; a like percentage, more or less, is gifted.
Any large sample of kids will have the same strengths and weaknesses and it is the job of the educators of that district to teach the kids.
Some districts are better led and do a better job.
If Teaneck is not standing out positively, despite the great sums of taxpayer money being expended, that is all the more argument for radical change in the culture of the system.
Please don't blame the kids or the teachers for less than fully successful administration.
It is definitely time to shake up the management structure of the Teaneck schools, especially with a brand new Superintendent coming in.
Let's hope for the sake of the kids, the teachers and the taxpayers that he or she pays attention and works with the new school board to sweep out the old ways of managing.
This past weekend, I met a student living in Manhattan who attends Teaneck HS, by using his aunt's Teaneck address. He's a good kid, and his aunt is my neighbor, so I'm not about to rat on him.
But how many of these students are there?
Is anybody else bothered by our lack of vigilance in this area?
OOR-
If this bothers you so much then you should report it! I dont care how good the kid is or not what he and his Auntie are doing is illegal (unless she legally his guardian and he resides with her).
And to answer your question, yes I am disturbed that out of district kids use our school system and do not pay for it!
People don't vote because voting is a waste of time from a purely rational perspective. I vote in every election but I do so mainly because I think it sends a good message to my children and teaches them something about civic responsibility.
But the odds one vote making a difference is astronomical. And even if your candidate wins because of your one vote, the chances that his policies will make a significant tangible difference to your life is also pretty slim.
Here are two fascinating articles on the subject:
1. Freakonomics column in NY Times2. Voting Kills
OOR,
So, in other words, you simply want to catch the 'not nice' kids who use our system illegally?
Your silence on the issue means you 100% condone their actions and you are (no surprise) PART of the problem.
I have to agree with OOR on this one (possibly a first!)
I wouldn't want to create ill will with a decent neighbor by ratting on them.
Houses in Teaneck are too close together and it pays to get along with your neighbors.
I also aware of specific situations where kids have moved in with non-parental relatives in order to attend the schools. Is this allowed or isn't it?
I would have less of an issue if he actually lived with his aunt or another "non-parental" relative. In this situation, the kid takes the bus from Washington Heights to Teaneck every morning.
Kids who get off at the high school are on the Spanish bus at River Road coming from west of the Hackensack River too in the morning (Paterson?).
It would not take too much effort to find them.
It seems everybody would rather pay for our schools to educate other people's kids than do anything about it.
To be fair to the Board of Ed, I believe the Teaneck schools did introduce an ongoing requirement for kids entering 5th and 9th Grades to re-enroll with the school district and prove residency in the township.
The re-enrollment requires them to produce a deed, lease, or property tax bill, and a utility bill. With the declining enrollment numbers I would think that this re-enrollment requirement has kept out some ineligible students from the Teaneck system.
The next question we need to be asking in light of the declining enrollment numbers is when do we start considering closing and selling off some of the Teaneck school buildings. Is there still a justification for having 3 separate schools for Grades 1-4 (Whittier, Lowell, and Hawthorne)? or two schools for grades 5-8 (Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson).
From what I recall, the projected 3400 enrollment for 2009-2010 is about 1000 students less that it was in the year 2000.
For re-enrollment, I believe any piece of mail will do. What's to stop a student from using his second cousin's utility bill as proof of residence?
Shouldn't the administration building on Merrison be closed/rented/sold and the administration be moved into the high school building?
Esther,
Re-read OOR's post. 'She would have less of a problem if....'.
The implication is that she has a problem with what is going on. She whines that Teaneck is educating out of towners.
She knows that this is going on in a specific case and is doing nothing about it.
Yet, she continues to whine....
It is called hypocrisy.
So, if someone robs your bank, you know who did it but you refuse to turn them in. yet, you're upset that your money is gone!
OOR could easily anonymously turn the person in, they would never know who did it.
How can OOR demand that the town do something when she won't do the very same thing?
RAT THEM OUT.....
ITS LIKE A GIRL THAT SAYS NO UNTILL THE OFFER $$$$$ IS HIGH ENOUGH IF YOU FELT IT AFFEECTED YOU ENOUGH YOU WOULD RAT THEM OUT.
5;46 is there empty space in the high school
Doesn't the high school currently hold half the number of students it was built for?
Now that I found the statistics - Enrollment in 2001-2002 was 4679 students. See this link at the defunct "teaneckblog" http://teaneckblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/incredibly-shrinking-district.html
And notably see this comment by Alan Sohn which lists what the enrollment predictions were just back in 2006 -
http://teaneckblog.blogspot.com/2006/06/incredibly-shrinking-district.html#c114988824937850270
Clearly, enrollment numbers have declined significantly enough that the town should start looking into the consolidation and sale of at least one of the school buildings.
So to summarize - From 2001-2002 to 2009-2010 enrollment will have dropped from 4679 to about 3400, a drop of 25% in the number of students and yet the total school budget in that same 8 year period has increased from $62 Million to $92 Million an increase of 48%.
If only American industry could match the growth record of the Teaneck Public Schools :)
Perhaps the board of ed could net lease school space to a yeshiva and use the ongoing revenue and saved maintenace costs to offset other expenses.
I also aware of specific situations where kids have moved in with non-parental relatives in order to attend the schools. Is this allowed or isn't it?
May 4, 2009 4:32 PMIt is not allowed unless that person is the LEGAL guardian on the said child.
I would have less of an issue if he actually lived with his aunt or another "non-parental" relative. In this situation, the kid takes the bus from Washington Heights to Teaneck every morning.Either way you are part of the problem since you refuse to report the problem to the proper authority!
Either do something or shut up!
For re-enrollment, I believe any piece of mail will do. What's to stop a student from using his second cousin's utility bill as proof of residence?No it has to be the deed/property tax bill/utility bill etc. Also if the child lives with someone not their parents they have to show the court/legal documents that back this up.
-
I agree with Esther, I commute over an hour to the city each way and ALWAYS am able to get to the polling places...except this last BOE election because I will not vote if I know nothing about the candidates or issues. I usually study up and try to make an educated decision (no pun intended) but I have been so busy with so many things that I couldn't fairly study up. Next time.
OORF has selected ethics. Beware what HER children are learning in her home. The next generation is in big trouble!!!
OORF has selected ethics. Beware what HER children are learning in her home. The next generation is in big trouble!!!
I think the day schools purposely are located outside of Teaneck town limits or there would be no state funded busing.
Just read that our neighbors at Northern Valley regional HS decided to charge students a $35 fee to participate in athletics or extra-curricular activities. Sounds like an idea we can copy here.
Click here to go to article.
Me again.
Just read that Bergenfield's public school enrollment is 3,100. Budget approved by voters is $43.1 million.
If our enrollment is a pretty similar 3,400, why is our proposed budget more than double theirs?
OOR here is another thought, why don't you report your neighbor that would save what 9K/year!
Here is another thought. Refuse/decline the reimbursement that Teaneck gives you to bus your kids to their day school(s). That could add up depending on how many kids you have.
Oh wait silly me you just like to bitch and moan and not do anything!
I don't get a reimbursement. I get free busing.
From what I know, there are some routes to day schools that were not bid on by the bus companies. These parents receive a rebate from the town. The checks don't cover the cost of hiring a private bus, so they get some money and have to drive the kids to school.
I don't get a reimbursement. I get free busing. Does the day school provide it? Or is the Township providing it to you at no cost? Nothing is free OOR if the town pays for the bus then our taxes are paying for it.
From what I know, there are some routes to day schools that were not bid on by the bus companies. These parents receive a rebate from the town. The checks don't cover the cost of hiring a private bus, so they get some money and have to drive the kids to school. Yup exactly how it works.
But if they feel like you do then perhaps they should reconsider accepting these funds from the Township.
Note that Bergenfield does not provide busing to the day school students. How does that work?
Note that Bergenfield does not provide busing to the day school students. How does that work?in accordance with State law, N.J.S.A. 18A:39-1, all public elementary school students (grades K-8) who live more than 2 miles from their school and all public secondary school students (grades 9-12) who live more than 2 ½ miles from their school are entitled to transportation. These students are said to live "remote from school". Whenever any school district is required to provide transportation to students attending regular public school programs, students attending nonpublic schools who meet those distance requirements may also be entitled to transportation services. In addition, any student classified with special needs who either meets these distance requirements or for whom transportation is required in the student’s Individual Education Plan must be transported.
As Teaneck's school enrollment falls below 3,500, our school district will now be rated against other districts with between 1,800 and 3,500 students instead of the current measurement against school districts with enrollments over 3,500.
What this means is our district now becomes the third highest spending (per student) district in the state vs other schools with simialr enrollments. We take a back seat only to the cities of Hoboken and Asbury Park.
This also indicates that we are no longer among the largest districts in the state, so we can no longer justify the exorbitant expenses.
As Teaneck's school enrollment falls below 3,500Perhaps your neighbor, you know the one you wont report, has some more family members that can attend the Teaneck schools free of charge.
That perhaps will keep the enrollment up!
Anon. 2:25 -- I assume you read my post, so please quote me correctly.
I said the Croton-Harmon school district in upper Westchester County, where Mr. Frisch's wife teaches and which he held up as a model after I questioned the relevance of his reference to the Bronx Science magnet high school, doesn't look like our district.
I also said I don't think such district-to-district and school-to-school comparisons are particularly helpful and asked whether Croton-Harmon has an Achievement Challenge initiative.
I have since done a little more Googling and also take issue with Henry’s statement that Harmon High School is “just a bit smaller” than Teaneck High School. If you click on the hypertext in this paragraph, scroll down to “School Statistics” and look at Students Per Grade, you will see that at the time of this report, Croton-Harmon High had hundreds of fewer students per grade than Teaneck High. (This is from a few years ago -- Joe White is still listed as principal -- but I doubt that things have changed so drastically to justify calling Croton-Harmon "just a bit smaller.")
Of course, if you look at “Students Race,” you will also see that Croton-Harmon is far less diverse. But more important than that, I believe it is generally a more affluent district. (Note that it has no statistics for “Free Lunch Eligibility,” unlike Teaneck.)
If you look at the income data for Groton-on-Hudson and Teaneck in Wikipedia, you’ll find that the two municipalities are fairly similar. BUT, I would venture to guess that far more families in Croton-on-Hudson utilize the public schools than in Teaneck, so that the socioeconomic profile of the Croton-Harmon school district more closely mirrors that of its town. Teaneck tends to get shafted in that department by the state Department of Education, because its socioeconomic District Factor Groups (DFGs) are based on town statistics, not school statistics. Thus Teaneck's GH group (on a scale of A to J) puts it on a par with towns like Emerson, Hillsdale and Northvale for comparison purposes, even though the absence of many of our most affluent families from our school district should put our actual grouping several letters closer to A.
But, at least the DofE's use of groupings acknowledges that socioeconomic factors do make a difference. I am sorry, but I will not buy into the studiously maintained fiction that they play no role in student outcomes and that addressing disparities in achievement is simply a cost-free matter of being more like this school system or that school system, regardless of how dissimilar the backgrounds of its children may be.
If one wants to argue for cutting cost to the bone, fine. But do not also argue that we need to try harder to raise achievement and close gaps in student performance. Addressing those issues will take money, and I’d much prefer a forthright statement that achievement isn’t a priority than the crocodile tears we often about it.
I'd like to attempt to correct some of the pieces of misinformation that have floated through this dialogue:
1. Class sizes as quoted are "averaged" -- and the number listed for Bryant includes in its average several special ed classes that are mandated to be no bigger than 6-8 students with a teacher and an aide. Thus, the overall class size average for that school is perceived to be much smaller than actually they are -- most regular ed kindergarten classes are 16-18 kids each.
2. Students in every public school district are enrolled with relatives as legal guardians, whether because of divorce or other family reasons. Teaneck employs a full-time truant officer who not only administers the registration of all new students entering the school district but reviews re-registrations for grades 1, 5, and 9 AND also follows up on complaints and tips that are given to him throughout the school year. He also is involved in investigating special ed student cases when needed.
3. Teaneck offers courtesy busing for grades K-4 only at less than the legal state requirement, to balance the schools for numbers of students and integration. Because of this, Teaneck is required to provide private & parochial school busing to the same extent, costing over $5.5 million each year, and mandated busing required for several hundred special ed students.
4. The oft-quoted number of current students attending the public schools this year (which I believe is less than actual figures) does not include over 800 special ed students who are both in district or placed out of district according to their IEPs.
Finally, I was very discouraged this year by the apathy on the part of most current Board members to get more information out throughout the town on the budget. In past years, much more effort was made to hold informative meetings in schools, use Channel 77for special programming, mailings, and phone calls. Of all five candidates who supported the budget this year by lip service, only Dr. Diuguid included visible support for the budget in all his literature and ads. In the past, hard work, leadership and efforts by both Board members and parents in a coordinated budget support campaign have been successful in turning around public opinion in this matter, but I clearly see the defeat as a combination of Board member's lack of effort, the currently depressing economic climate and a focused negative campaign led by Mr. Burack in certain segments of our community. It was a perfect storm...
mskj mentions Channel 77.
This channel is not available on Verizon Fios, which it seems has become very popular in my part of town. Strangely, we get the community TV channels from dozens of towns around Bergen County and neighboring counties, but not Teaneck's Channel 77.
I get community channels from Hackensack, Westwood, Clifton, Washington Township, Oradell, Montvale, Fair Lawn, Emerson, Paterson, Fairfield, Roseland, West Caldwell, West Orange and Saddle Brook among others.
But NO TEANECK!
Croton-Harmon District Report Card - Accountability and Overview Report 2007-2008 shows Jeff's numbers are from the 2006-2007 school year. The HS population exploded from 505 students to 512 in the 2007-2008 school year.
Total 2007-2008 enrollment was 1731 in a town whose population is about a fifth of Teanecks.
Croton-Harmon District Report Card - Comprehensive Information Report 2007–08 lists the Expenditures per pupil for the 2006-2007 school year as $20,757.
According to the 2000 US Census (in 1999 $'s), the median household income in Croton-on-Hudson is $100,182 vs. Teanecks $84,791 or 18% higher.
Statistics on those in the Croton school district eligible for Free Lunch and Reduced-Price lunch are available in this report and show no students eligible for each of the three years shown.
The Croton-Harmon school population is listed as 87.7% white and 1.9% black. A total of 60 black students across K-12 or less than 5 per grade level.
Croton-Harmon is a small upper middle class homogeneous school district. The attempt to compare Teaneck's public schools by a member of the Financial Advisory Board is astounding. Hopefully, the council will take it into consideration and realize that this member of FAB is not qualified to provide advice on either educational or financial matters.
Ha Tom...Get a Life !
OOR try Verizon Fios channel 24.
Karin - Is that true? A couple of months ago I finally got cable (FIOS), I couldn't figure out for the life of me how to view local broadcasting.
Karin & Esther,
I tried Channel 24. It is Washington Township.
Esther,
No idea (I use another service provider)...perhaps a phone call to Verizon is in order?
When I used Google it gave me channel 24 for Verizon (perhaps this is only applicable in certain areas?)
OOR-
You have time on your hands perhaps you should call Verizon and find out what channel Teaneck broadcasts on, if they do on Fios
According to the channel listing on Verizon FiOS' website, Teaneck is NOT one of the municipalities they offer local programming for.
There are dozens of other towns and cities listed, but not ours.
Click here to go to the list. Town channels are on the last page.
According to the channel listing on Verizon FiOS' website, Teaneck is NOT one of the municipalities they offer local programming for.
There are dozens of other towns and cities listed, but not ours.
Click here to go to the list. Town channels are on the last page.Oh well, perhaps you can voice your disgust at the next council meeting :-)
Tom-
Your attempt to make Teaneck seem socio-economically vastly inferior is laughable.
If you want people to accept your attack on me, why don't you really check facts. There are no students on lunch in Croton because there is no cafeteria at the school. Students are responsible for their own lunch there, a way for that school to save money.
If you check current numbers of students at both Teaneck High and Croton you will find a far leaner operation at Croton on a per student basis for that population.
You cannot refute the numbers on the excessive outside-the-classroom expenditure in Teaneck, so you choose to attack me.
That would be merely sad -- perhaps as sad as the meager turnout at the meeting you organized for last Sunday to overthrow the election returns--if it were not so irresponsible on your part.
You simply and simple-mindedly cannot accept that the voters of teaneck reject the waste that you and those close to you have both permitted and actively caused to continue for so very long.
If you were responsible you would accept what is going on in the world around us and would be interested in making our school system better and certainly would not inject race as you do into your diatribe.
Henry,
why argue with Tom. He's never been wrong, just ask him.
He can choose to refute your numbers, but then he goes on to attack YOU, personally.
If someone did that to him, he'd erase the message from the blog (and as such, this post will probably only be there for a short time).
In Tom's world, everyone has to adhere to the rules, but TOM!
Henry, While Teaneck's $18,000 per student is bloated, it seems to pale in comparison to the almost $21,000 that Croton-on-Hudson spends.
How is a homogeneous, lily white community where almost all of the school age children attend the public schools and almost none are on government aid compare to a district where many students come from disadvantaged backgrounds, are far poorer and much more likely to face educational challenges.
For the extra $2,000 or $3,000 that Croton spends on each student, they can't even manage to give kids lunch. What could we possibly learn from this district that would help us in Teaneck?
CLASS SIZES
My third grader at Yavneh (a Jewish day school) is in a class of 24.
WOW CFA that is large for a private school.
Teaneck spends 94 million dollars on 3400 students. Even if you throw in the 600 students it supports in addition, that is 94 million divided by 4000. That is a lot more than 18,000.
Figures don't lie but liars can figure. There is something wrong with that 18,000 figure.
The numbers come straight from the state. There are more than 4,000 students in Teaneck and the cost of things like bussing yeshiva kids to school or sending a kid to a qualified school for special ed for $200 thou a year are excluded.
3400 plus the extra 600 was in the literature at the Board meeting to discuss the budget several weeks ago.
or sending a kid to a qualified school for special ed for $200 thou a year are excluded.Why does Teaneck farm these kids out? Don't they have the facilities/teachers here in town? I would think keeping them in district would be cheaper than farming them out, no?
Not necessarily. If a student's individual instruction plan calls for services no other student in the district needs it would make sense to send him/her somewhere where those services are set up.
So exactly how many special ed kids are farmed out at the cost of 200K/year? And is it true Teaneck pays till they are 21?
Couple of thoughts: If you condone illegal activities, you are guilty too. OORF, you're painfully self-righteous and condoning criminal activity. Grand Larceny is the level of the crime. It is your DUTY to report crime when and where you see it. If someone stole $18k worth of hardware from the depot or embezzled that amount from a budget somewhere and you knew it would you report it? Keep in mind that all sorts of people read this blog and you may have set yourself and your neighbor up for some trouble.
If you choose to pay tuition out of town you should decline the bus service. That would be the proper community minded and fiscally responsible thing thing to do, but that is not apparently your perspective. If you can afford the tuition then drive the kids or car pool but do not accept the town's money for bus rides. Incredibly selfish. I agree with the poster that is concerned about what you teach your children regarding issues of honesty and community. My high school kid reads these blogs and is shocked to see what is written. "These people are adults?" There you go, from the mouths of babes flows the truth and the toughest questions.
If you choose to pay tuition out of town you should decline the bus service. That would be the proper community minded and fiscally responsible thing thing to doBecause the people the go to private schools aren't part of the community? You are completely in the wrong here.
Busing, like many other services are offered for everyone with school age children in the township. To tell parents otherwise is obscene.
OORF, you're painfully self-righteous and condoning criminal activity. Grand Larceny is the level of the crime. It is your DUTY to report crime when and where you see it.No it's not. As it's been said before, it's quite likely that finding students that are 'illegally' using Teaneck resources would be fiscally unsound as it would cost more than it would save, but there's certainly no DUTY to be a snitch on others.
In fact, the laws are written in a way so that the schools are available to more, not fewer students. You don't know what the school situation is for anyone - and other than the fact that an anonymous windbag (OOR) says that she/he may have seen a neighbor get off a random bus and go to school, there's no evidence here either.
If you choose to pay tuition out of town you should decline the bus service. That would be the proper community minded and fiscally responsible thing thing to do, but that is not apparently your perspective. If you can afford the tuition then drive the kids or car pool but do not accept the town's money for bus rides. Incredibly selfish.Every child that leaves the public school saves tens of thousands of dollars, which is the proper community minded and fiscally responsible thing to do. You would think that they would get cheers and a hearty thank you from the public for the huge savings of fiscal resources.
Wow! Someone decides that they want to give their children the education they feel appropriate and save the public $18,000 on a public education for each child and now they are selfish to accept the bus ride that Teaneck provides by state law?
Busing, like many other services are offered for everyone with school age children in the township. To tell parents otherwise is obscene.Then OOR should perhaps stop bitching and moaning about the $$ being spent by the BOE. She wants things cut like sports but God forbid her busing get cut.
Also there may not be duty to snitch but once again OOR complains about out of town kids using the schools free of charge then she has put herself in a position where she should so something or SHUT UP!
In fact, the laws are written in a way so that the schools are available to more, not fewer studentsAs long as they are residents of this TOWN! If they are not then they need to pay to attend the public schools!
Actually ANON, Teaneck legally only has to provide the private school bussing if they offer it to the public school kids. They could do what many other towns do and not offer it after a certain grade except to the speical ed kids that require it.
Interesting article from Malcolm Gladwell on class size vs teacher's ability
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/12/15/081215fa_fact_gladwell?currentPage=all
If B.L.T. was in favor of settling the big lawsuit before the jury decided maybe we would have saved the expense of 2,500,000.
note ; she was not alone
but i thought she puts herself out as a leader. Guess i was wrong.
boy did i vote for the wrong person that year.
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